Forum posts voting system

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Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Downtown Canada

Re: Forum posts voting system

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@WB from this side of the fence, people with bad reputations here have typically needed very little time to foster them, and then follow a very straight plot to getting banned.

The people who have bult up a good reputation have done so over time through actions. Most of the regular contributors here get very few warnings, or never get them.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

bhall
bhall
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Forum posts voting system

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What gives any of us the right to sit in judgment of someone else?

And if the goal is to give members "more of a voice," the absolute last thing you do is implement a system whereby the opinions of others dictate how one's thoughts are presented. That does nothing but turn discussions into beauty pageants.

It's also condescending as hell to treat people as if they don't have the wherewithal to decide for themselves what they want and don't want to read. I can do that on my own, and I imagine most people feel the same way.

Generally speaking, I don't understand how it's possible that people claim to value the free exchange of ideas and then turn around and do everything they can to stifle it. That makes as much sense to me as a football bat.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:54 am

Re: Forum posts voting system

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Let me drop few suggestions.

First of all, I agree with opinions that whole idea of voting should be promotion of quality posts, rather than downgrading bad ones. Therefore I'd go for positive votes only, so if someone writes bad posts he will have none or very little thumbs up. I think it is much better for the overall climate on the forum, since having none or few recommendations will cause less embarrassment to members than having large number of thumbs down.

One of the rules by my opinion should also be that only forum members can vote, but only in topic they have already posted - in order to judge others, people should be exposed to judgement of others. That seams ultimately fair to me.

It would be bad idea if tens, hundreds or even more members could just hit thumbs down button or however buttons will be defined, without giving their own opinion in the specific topic. That is why I'm for thumbs up only button.

It should also stimulate people to write quality posts, because if someone writes short post just to be able to vote, than such bad post would get no recommendations. Circle closed, voting system protected from abuse.

So, instead of artificial hierarchy that considers predefined amount of votes per day, and predefined amount of votes for gaining certain rating, that can be manipulated to give wrong impression, I suggest system that doesn't allow any member with lot of time on his hands to play with downgrading button on someone he hates or the opinions he simply doesn't agrees with, without being forced to present his own and face same probability of being unrated positively. No hiding posts, no bad grades, but something that will contribute to quality, instead of turning into grading and downgrading without purpose.

Another thing that comes to my mind would be problem with overlapping of sub forums and rating.

For instance - if members would be allowed to vote without posting in thread they are voting in, than someone who for instance writes quality posts in General chat, but writes none, very few or bad posts in Aerodynamics, chassis and tyres, would bring his rating earned on different place, to another part of forum where he isn't rated as quality poster at all. Wouldn't that be confusing and have completely opposite effect than what is intended with this voting idea? So, perhaps different coloring of rating for each sub forum, and displaying of rating gained in specific sub forum only.
Last edited by manchild on Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:21 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: Forum posts voting system

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I was very leased to read about this idea. There are people who post rubbish - they have little technical understanding and post stupid ideas which other similarly uninformed members discuss and debate - it is all drivel but we have to wade through this rubbish. I am not even talking about the driver & car make ying-yang stuff, but some of the fairytale ideas about energising aitflow with radiator heat as an example. So I was very pleased to see that there would be a way the technically informed could register their displeasure at having to endure that technical drivel.

But what Manchild has said makes me see the problems with negative votes.

I suggest that users can never have an imbalance between their +ve & -ve votes of more than 1. I would still like to be spared the inane technical rubbish posts that have so degraded this site.

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flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:31 pm

Re: Forum posts voting system

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tok-tokkie wrote:I was very leased to read about this idea. There are people who post rubbish - they have little technical understanding and post stupid ideas which other similarly uninformed members discuss and debate - it is all drivel but we have to wade through this rubbish. I am not even talking about the driver & car make ying-yang stuff, but some of the fairytale ideas about energising aitflow with radiator heat as an example. So I was very pleased to see that there would be a way the technically informed could register their displeasure at having to endure that technical drivel.

But what Manchild has said makes me see the problems with negative votes.

I suggest that users can never have an imbalance between their +ve & -ve votes of more than 1. I would still like to be spared the inane technical rubbish posts that have so degraded this site.
I agree that if used correctly this would be a great tool to help eliminate some of the rubbish posts. I fear that most of the members who knew what they were talking have already left and we will end up with the popularity contest mentioned above.

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Steven
Owner
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 5:32 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Forum posts voting system

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flynfrog wrote:I agree that if used correctly this would be a great tool to help eliminate some of the rubbish posts. I fear that most of the members who knew what they were talking have already left and we will end up with the popularity contest mentioned above.
.... which is why the number of possible votes per user depends on their reputation, which will be earned by valuable posts. Everybody will start with 0 possible votes, and only a quality post will earn you that right.

Note that some ex-members have been consulted as well. It appears that a voting system could be a solution to most of the complaints I have heard, especially this last year.

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flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:31 pm

Re: Forum posts voting system

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Tomba wrote:
flynfrog wrote:I agree that if used correctly this would be a great tool to help eliminate some of the rubbish posts. I fear that most of the members who knew what they were talking have already left and we will end up with the popularity contest mentioned above.
.... which is why the number of possible votes per user depends on their reputation, which will be earned by valuable posts. Everybody will start with 0 possible votes, and only a quality post will earn you that right.

Note that some ex-members have been consulted as well. It appears that a voting system could be a solution to most of the complaints I have heard, especially this last year.
Ill give it a shot. The worst that can happen is you remove it later. 8)

bhall
bhall
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Forum posts voting system

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What's a valuable post? For that matter, what's a rubbish post? I'm asking these questions because I'm clearly incapable of figuring it out for myself.

Could someone please tell me how to think?

manchild
manchild
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:54 am

Re: Forum posts voting system

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Tomba wrote:Everybody will start with 0 possible votes, and only a quality post will earn you that right.
Perhaps I've misunderstood something...

If everybody will start at 0 voting possibilities, who will than give the initial votes if everyone will have 0 voting possibilities until another member votes for their post? :-k

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:51 am
Location: SU 419113

Re: Forum posts voting system

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Credits approved by the senate manchild :) or so I'm going to guess...

Let's see where this development leads because it has vast potential. The only fear I have is wether it will scare some users into not posting as it may polarise opinion contrary to their own( regardless of who wields voting power).
But on the whole, and I'm as guilty as the worst, it will lead to more quality and less quantity ensuring the ethos of the site is kept.

In my mind, it could lead to this site being a reference point more so than now.
Let's see, but onwards and upwards for F1Technical.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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mx_tifoso
5
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:01 am
Location: North America

Re: Forum posts voting system

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Great post, JET.

But something of great importance is that voters should be held accountable for their actions, in that if we notice that someone is abusing a specific member by only voting them down we can take away their voting rights asap.

Steven, will there be a way to view a members voting history?
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strad
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 am

Re: Forum posts voting system

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I don't get it or the need for it...I don't think I like it.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

manchild
manchild
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:54 am

Re: Forum posts voting system

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I'm also skeptical and fail to see practical side of it, and that is why I though of ways that wouldn't cause problems since as much as I can see majority wants voting system.

I don't know to whom will the positive votes serve, since all posts are personal opinions, apart from pasted links, images, quotations etc?

I'm afraid that people who hate someone will have much more motive to participate and vote thumbs down, than those who are expected to positively rate quality posts. It could lead to surrounding in which being a good contributor means only not being punished. There must be some kind of reward for quality posters, because otherwise fear will exist as only motivation, and that would turn forum into "go with the flow or be damned" kind of place.

All that I'm saying is for the benefit of the forum in it's primal meaning - a place of the debate. If debating in a sense of expressing unpopular opinion becomes equal to taking a risk, than quality of posts and forum will suffer, and as Mark Twain said - Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Forum posts voting system

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mx_tifoso wrote:But something of great importance is that voters should be held accountable for their actions, in that if we notice that someone is abusing a specific member by only voting them down we can take away their voting rights asap.

Steven, will there be a way to view a members voting history?
This idea by itself is showing the basic fault of a simple system. The moderators already have super powers. It is not their opinion that the system is supposed to express. The users should vote in the content system and moderators in that system should be treated exactly like any other user. One man one vote. And no manipulations by moderators.

A fair system publishes the reputation status of each member but only the member himself should be able to see where his status comes from. Perhaps mods can also view the rep account of members but they must not be allowed to manipulate it. The users will very quickly hate a system that is manipulated by the mods.

The double book keeping that I proposed could be a little expanded by the following proposal:

You have consent and disagree buttons at each post. If a user pushes the buttons one positive or negative rep point is added to the authors name and record if the user pushing the button still has rep points to spend. As I said before each user should be able to spend only 10 rep points per week and only one per user and day. A variable number of points - depending of the voting power of the voter - is added to the thread which contains that post. That way the voting is kept simple. The book keeping is different for the content and the users. Perhaps users with very high reputation are given some few extra points per week like fifteen instead of ten.

So the difference between content voting and rep voting is that every push of the buttons registers in the content system but the rep score is carefully filtered by the system to prevent abuse.

The users total of rep points is displayed in his box with the number of his posts. The thread points are added to the thread statistics. If the voting user has high rep it multiplies his points added to the thread.

A good thread is a thread that has many positive points per post. That way the users have a good feed back which threads to read. They do not need feed back about single posts. They can make up their own mind which posts to click with thumbs up or down.

If you introduce a system at all - which is not an idea I generally like - such a system could be met with relatively high user approval.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bhall
bhall
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Forum posts voting system

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WhiteBlue wrote:The users will very quickly hate a system that is manipulated by the mods.
On that note, I wonder who has a problem with the status quo. Yes, some good people have left the forum, but I don't really feel even the slightest sense of loss for people who couldn't find it within themselves to simply IGNORE whatever they found to be so offensive.

I'm more than a little curious to know how those same people handle the "real world" where no one walks around with a user rating pinned to their shirt.