POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all?

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Do you think voting on posts should be open to all?

Yes.
14
15%
Not to new users, until after a certain time or number of posts.
21
23%
No, it's fine as is.
32
35%
No. Voting & Reputation should be removed completely.
25
27%
 
Total votes: 92

xpensive
xpensive
378
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:06 pm
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

It gets even worse than that, when I get downvoted for upvoting the "wrong" posts, why I don't even dare to upvote yours,
which I really wanted to, as I'm so afraid of losing my own precious points in the race to the coveted 25?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

marcush.
marcush.
268
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

SeijaKessen wrote:Why even have voting?

It's idiotic at best and turns everything into a popularity contest.

Maybe it can be explained to me why everything in the Merc-Brawn topic got whacked, and I see plenty of posts that have no technical value at all of remaining with a plus 1. God forbid xpensive and I should express any sort of sense of humor around here.

Not for nothing, shouldn't the voting be about GOOD posts or someone making a point you agree with regardless of it being technical in nature?

Not everything has to be technical in nature to be qualified as a post worthy of being up-voted.

Or better yet, if this is still going to be subjective to what the moderators feel is a worthy post, then why are there posts in the other F1 tech forums (tires section) that are nothing more than one-liners getting upvoted and nothing is done about that?

I think the entire nature of the voting system while good in theory is not good in the long run.

As a long-standing member of another forum --10+ years-- we've never implemented such a thing because it would serve no purpose.
I have given your input some thought and you are right a good post is just as valuable as a technical input into some discussion.
Just let´s see where things will take us.

beelsebob
beelsebob
179
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

For me, I see it as working very well so far, for a few reasons
1) It encourages people to make quality posts, not a quantity of posts as the old system did.
2) It really does encourage technical posts – my reputation doubled simply by making one post with some good solid stats in it rather than just guess work.
3) It allows people to suppress the stupid driver/mercedes threads easily.

User avatar
JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:51 am
Location: SU 419113

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

beelsebob wrote:For me, I see it as working very well so far, for a few reasons
1) It encourages people to make quality posts, not a quantity of posts as the old system did.
2) It really does encourage technical posts – my reputation doubled simply by making one post with some good solid stats in it rather than just guess work.
3) It allows people to suppress the stupid driver/mercedes threads easily.
I disagree. This has nothing to do with "technical" posts. People get up votes or down votes for simple agree/disagrees.
You then also have pals who up vote each others posts. It's very easy to see whom, and to needn't have been around here long to work it out. I'm sure the mods have the stats, and it would be very interesting reading the percentage of votes from a particular poster to another.
As for surpression of said "driver/Mercedes" threads, why should these be censured if there proper honest to goodness debate.
If your going to start talking about "the boss" or "norby the hut", "Max's spannerman" then I switch off. You cannot criticise a team/driver without facts. Stating facts in these debates is necessary for decent outcomes.

By not having these threads, I would guess the traffic directed to this site would halve. A necessary evil you may call, but if done in the correct fashion can add to the quality of the site.

And no worries, I won't downvote because I disagree ..... :wink:
More could have been done.
David Purley

User avatar
Pierce89
96
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

beelsebob wrote:For me, I see it as working very well so far, for a few reasons

3) It allows people to suppress the stupid driver/mercedes threads easily.
Maybe true, but, why should people lose points earned in other threads because the mod that creates the thread in question didn't like that it became popular?
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
Cam
123
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:38 am

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

Pierce89 wrote:
beelsebob wrote:For me, I see it as working very well so far, for a few reasons

3) It allows people to suppress the stupid driver/mercedes threads easily.
Maybe true, but, why should people lose points earned in other threads because the mod that creates the thread in question didn't like that it became popular?
Every game has it rules, spoken and un-spoken. The mods (on any site) have ultimate control. We, as ordinary users, have the choice to accept the terms and conditions and play along - or leave.

The next step would be to a review system setup to go through every -1 that people thought unfair - and that's not going to happen.

Just concentrate on giving good information, good opinions and generally, posts that add value - you simply cannot go wrong.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

User avatar
SeijaKessen
12
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:34 pm
Location: USA

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

xpensive wrote:It gets even worse than that, when I get downvoted for upvoting the "wrong" posts, why I don't even dare to upvote yours,
which I really wanted to, as I'm so afraid of losing my own precious points in the race to the coveted 25?
It's kind of tough for me to vote people up.

I saw a few good posts today, but who knows how it will be taken now that we know everything is under review.

User avatar
Pierce89
96
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
beelsebob wrote:For me, I see it as working very well so far, for a few reasons
1) It encourages people to make quality posts, not a quantity of posts as the old system did.
2) It really does encourage technical posts – my reputation doubled simply by making one post with some good solid stats in it rather than just guess work.
3) It allows people to suppress the stupid driver/mercedes threads easily.
I disagree. This has nothing to do with "technical" posts. People get up votes or down votes for simple agree/disagrees.
You then also have pals who up vote each others posts. It's very easy to see whom, and to needn't have been around here long to work it out. I'm sure the mods have the stats, and it would be very interesting reading the percentage of votes from a particular poster to another.
As for surpression of said "driver/Mercedes" threads, why should these be censured if there proper honest to goodness debate.
If your going to start talking about "the boss" or "norby the hut", "Max's spannerman" then I switch off. You cannot criticise a team/driver without facts. Stating facts in these debates is necessary for decent outcomes.

By not having these threads, I would guess the traffic directed to this site would halve. A necessary evil you may call, but if done in the correct fashion can add to the quality of the site.

And no worries, I won't downvote because I disagree ..... :wink:
Why should any threads be suppressed? Every member is here for a love of F1 and its technology. If people are enjoying making jokes about "Norby the Hut", you should recognize they are only joking. The only people who take the driver debate seriously are the same ones complaining. People enjoy blowing off steam around somewhat like minded individuals.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
SeijaKessen
12
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:34 pm
Location: USA

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

beelsebob wrote:For me, I see it as working very well so far, for a few reasons
1) It encourages people to make quality posts, not a quantity of posts as the old system did.
2) It really does encourage technical posts – my reputation doubled simply by making one post with some good solid stats in it rather than just guess work.
3) It allows people to suppress the stupid driver/mercedes threads easily.
Ah yes but beelsebob, here is the conundrum that exists within motor racing...

You can build the cars all you want, but if no one drives them, then you cannot have racing.

I agree that plenty of driver threads go south quickly, but here's where the problem comes in. Instead of it being acknowledged that there are people who are trying to use facts and/or historical comparisons, a little lynch mob starts up god forbid you say anything critical of Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel. I've had a number of PM conversations regarding this, that all logic goes out the window for some posters here when either of those drivers come up.

Instead of locking the thread, why not just keep the people who can't post in a sane manner from posting in them?

People are inextricably linked to F1, so I do believe there is plenty of room for discussion on that front. The human element is just as important as the technical aspect. Feel free to disagree there. If it were a bunch of robots driving the cars on race weekends, I doubt many of us would be watching.

The other side of the coin, is you can just limit this forum to the engine/suspension/aero/tire/transmission/car tech sections, and not allow for anything else to be posted here ever.

User avatar
Cam
123
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:38 am

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

Pierce89 wrote:This is my problem with the current situation also. I had built a few points, but now I'm at 1 . Its totally arbitrary, but only for those in "power". Why should X lose points(or myself) because once a mod created a forum with a title that invited some humour, some people had fun joking around. Other people thought it was funny and entertaining, so they gave many upvotes. Alas, this offended the delicate sensibilities of a certain mod. Lo and behold, the mod that invited the joking to begin with, tears through there downvoting "bad" posts. Nice.
I also had a few humorous posts down voted. I think try to remember where you are - F1 "Technical". Funny quips and satirical one liners - while funny - don't really add value to a technical thread. So I understand why a down vote in that instance.

Maybe start a new thread specifically for one liners - quote a thread post and have at it. But do it away from the original thread so it does not waste the time of others who legitimately want the technical information.

It does sometimes appear as though a controversial comment, or one that is techincally correct but not popular, does get passed over for up votes or even actually gets a down vote. But that is life. If you're here only for the points, then you're in for a rough and very upsetting ride I feel.

Find something new, original or something that makes smart people re-think and old solved problem and post that - on topic - and you should be in the zone for up votes. That's been my experience.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

User avatar
SeijaKessen
12
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:34 pm
Location: USA

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

Pierce89 wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
beelsebob wrote:For me, I see it as working very well so far, for a few reasons
1) It encourages people to make quality posts, not a quantity of posts as the old system did.
2) It really does encourage technical posts – my reputation doubled simply by making one post with some good solid stats in it rather than just guess work.
3) It allows people to suppress the stupid driver/mercedes threads easily.
I disagree. This has nothing to do with "technical" posts. People get up votes or down votes for simple agree/disagrees.
You then also have pals who up vote each others posts. It's very easy to see whom, and to needn't have been around here long to work it out. I'm sure the mods have the stats, and it would be very interesting reading the percentage of votes from a particular poster to another.
As for surpression of said "driver/Mercedes" threads, why should these be censured if there proper honest to goodness debate.
If your going to start talking about "the boss" or "norby the hut", "Max's spannerman" then I switch off. You cannot criticise a team/driver without facts. Stating facts in these debates is necessary for decent outcomes.

By not having these threads, I would guess the traffic directed to this site would halve. A necessary evil you may call, but if done in the correct fashion can add to the quality of the site.

And no worries, I won't downvote because I disagree ..... :wink:
Why should any threads be suppressed? Every member is here for a love of F1 and its technology. If people are enjoying making jokes about "Norby the Hut", you should recognize they are only joking. The only people who take the driver debate seriously are the same ones complaining. People enjoy blowing off steam around somewhat like minded individuals.
That's my point.

I like to make light of a lot of things because it takes a lot of the edge off.

JET may not have liked our MGP bashing, but it was all in good nature.

It seems that regardless of whether things are in good nature or bad nature, it's not always liked.

I get that the topic still exists in the off topic area, but really, who goes there all that often? No one will see it there. I thought the entire thing was deleted till I happened to look in there for something unrelated.

I felt the way xpensive and I approached it was much better than the way some people go about a lot of these hot button topics. A little levity goes an incredibly long way, and I know a lot of people were having fun reading that stuff. I posted it up on Facebook and some of my friends who read through thought it was absolutely hysterical to read. But at the same time, hidden behind the humor, there is some truth to be found, but the humor takes away a lot of the bite that might come were it not for the humor.

And JET, I never would have down-voted you regardless of the fact that we disagree on MGP. Having a disagreement isn't cause to down-vote someone for me personally.

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Pierce89
96
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

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Who cares about their number? I just don't like even the appearance of "tampering" with an "ostensibly democratic" system.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
Cam
123
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:38 am

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

Post

But it's not democratic. We can't vote for who the mods are, who owns the site, where it's hosted or vote to change the rules and terms and conditions. There's nothing democratic about this site. The mods allow us to cast votes on posts (to which they have veto rights). Thats the long and short of it. Choose to play or not. Don't choose to complain.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

User avatar
SeijaKessen
12
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:34 pm
Location: USA

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

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Cam wrote:But it's not democratic. We can't vote for who the mods are, who owns the site, where it's hosted or vote to change the rules and terms and conditions. There's nothing democratic about this site. The mods allow us to cast votes on posts (to which they have veto rights). Thats the long and short of it. Choose to play or not. Don't choose to complain.
Ah but Cam...here's the point. I see certain people getting upvoted for no reason, yet because a thread is technical in nature, their vote remains.

I'm not pointing names out, or saying which threads they are. I'm sure if you looked carefully you would see it.

If you're going to downvote everyone's posts, then all I ask is it remains consistent across the board.

I respect very much that this forum is owned by whomever owns it, therefore it is not a democracy.

But, again, the other forum I frequent pretty much keeps moderator involvement to a minimum, and it's the most fantastic message board I ever posted on. The community polices itself by and large not only on the forum, but also into the real world because certain spats have spilled over into real life.

User avatar
Cam
123
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:38 am

Re: POLL: Do you think voting on posts should be open to all

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@SeijaKessen - you're still trying to ask for a democratic and balanced system in a Forum which is not. I understand where you're coming from, but what you complain about is a moot point. Also, trying to compare your votes against someone else's is also moot - no matter how unfair or one-sided you believe it to be. It's list trying to figure out why the guy who started after you got a promotion - you'll have your views but will never really know. Maybe you're right, maybe your wrong. You can't change it, so just concentrate on what you can achieve and do that really well.

From time to time, I do look at the reputation changes for some people, just to see what kind of posts get up voted and there is a clear pattern. It's not 100%, but it is clear enough. No system is perfect and I'm sure the mods discuss this system between each other. Look at the highest rated people and tell me they are not really knowledgeable and have contributed great information.

Just do the same and you 'may' get a vote up. You have to be in the zone to attempt a touch down.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.