How is the forum rating system doing?

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Moxie
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Moxie » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:25 am

I reiterate: DOWN VOTES ARE CHILDISH!!!

I do use the up-vote feature to acknowledge a point of view or an idea that I found interesting. I often up-vote the art displayed by the members. I am also inclined to up-vote clever humor.

I have seen too many times in this ilustrious technical forum that the down vote is little more than a weapon wielded by petty people, with too many emotions riding on winning arguments relating to F1.

Moderators have a duty to weed out the aggressive, offensive and discriminatory posts, and they should wield their power carefully.

Cam
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Cam » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:48 am

Moxie - I think it's a case of "if you don't like it, leave". And I mean that with all respect. I don't mind the down votes and yes, I know quite a few have been used in a petty and vindictive manner, but what can you do? Try not to get caught up it. People who have so little power in real life tend to wield it like Saddam whenever they can. My life is great, so having a few numbers next to my name in one forum makes zero impact in my life :)

I'm not complaining about the big reputation change - I just don't understand how I lost 7 votes in an hour and it not show in the history. I also see different numbers in threads to what votes are cast. So there's either a technical issue or I need to stop typing, excuse myself and seek a psychiatric appointment.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

Moxie
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Moxie » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:02 am

Cam wrote:People who have so little power in real life tend to wield it like Saddam whenever they can.
I like that line :D

Anyway,

To put a finer point on it, there is something distasteful about having a discussion and keeping score. Down-votes violate the adage, "If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all."

I don't care about the numbers either. I judge the posts as I read them, and form my own opinion about which posters tend to provide useful information, and well developed opinions. I don't need F1 technical to tell me who has their --- together and who doesn't. If someone posts something utterly stupid or useless, we all know it. Why keep score? And as for my own numbers, I think I'd be ashamed of myself if my life revolved around gaining reputation points.


I will admit that I was ticked when my post was removed for no apparent reason. If that kind of stuff continues, I will leave.
Last edited by Moxie on Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cam
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Cam » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:15 am

Moxie wrote:I judge the posts as I read them, and form my own opinion about which posters tend to provide useful information, and well developed opinions.
That, for me, is what the voting is for. If you think a post has merit, vote for it. If you think someone is just being a smart a$$ for no other reason than to be a smart a$$, then down vote it. Voting is a good thing, because peopel will see it and should consider what it says more or less, than a zero post. But this comes at a cost of morons who down vote for no other reason than to 'punish' you. But such is life.

Your opinion matters - so voice it. I can't speak for you, but I have basically no technical skill, yet I get votes from time to time and I think those votes reflect either a positive opinion on something or perhaps an insight into a topic that has not been mentioned - or a copy/pasta - which works well too for some. That's all I can offer F1T.

F1 is more than nuts and bolts. There is marketing, management, business, history, future.... so many things that make the sport, all of which are intrinsically linked and need each other. So to have a forum based solely on engines, while refusing to discuss why those engines are required - seems to miss a huge technical point - but that's just me.

The voting says to rate a post as "valuable" - in this context, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Some people miss that point.....
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

Steven
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Steven » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:27 pm

Cam wrote:Think there might be another bug - either that or I'm going crazy.

Example: thread "F1 Performance: is it the car, is it the driver?" - shows 35 points - but going through the thread and counting the +1's and -1's equals 6 (when I did it) - so where has the 35 come from ? Also, the thread did actually display 6 yesterday and then an hour after I looked, it displayed 35. This corresponded with a big reputation change for me from 102 to 95. Down votes are ok - but I cannot see 7 down votes in my reputation change history, during that hours time, to reflect that.

Can you confirm this is happening or is it something on my end i.e. cache or similar?
I believe I have mentioned before that there is indeed a bug with the count of votes on threads. It's known and will be worked on, but some other things will be introduced first. The problem is, for instance, when posts are moved by a mod, the thread ratings are not recalculated, hence we end up with incorrect totals. Individual post ratings and member ratings are correct though (afaik).

Cam
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Cam » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:19 am

Image
Hi Steven, thanks for responding. While I understand there is a thread count issue - I’m not sure I explained the reputation issue I’m experiencing clearly, so I have added some screen grabs. From left to right - you can see discrepancies in the count and the dates. A simple count will show something is not right.

As of May 30 9:16am my Reputation = 98. You can see on the IMAGE 1 - with the two green dots.

IMAGE 1 also shows the reputation at 100 - the original 98 plus two extra +1’s to end the day (May 30) at 100.

Since then (IMAGE 2 & IMAGE 3), there has been 8 x +1’s and 6 x -1’s - making the total = 102.

Yet my reputation tally shows 95. This is what I do not understand. It’s fine if down votes were cast, but I cannot see where and for what posts they were cast against. You'd think I'd see an extra 7 x -1's in the history since May 30 to reflect the tally of 95, I see now.

My question remains - is this issue isolated to me, or is this wider? Has anyone else noticed this happening?

If people are to use the voting system, then the voting system should give us confidence that it’s working correctly - our votes are being tallied correctly, applied fairly and any changes are tracked and transparent. While I don’t believe anything untoward has occurred, I do think some bug is in there. Can you please have a look and let me know if I'm missing something or if there is an issue.

Thanks
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

strad
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by strad » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:34 pm

told ya before it ain't right.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

WaikeCU
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by WaikeCU » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:36 am

Dunno why you should downvote somebody's opinion. It just happen with my opinion in the Pirelli 2014 thread. Clueless of what and why. :(

I could only see a downvote when you offend somebody verbally. Besides, some have come here to become a member to learn more about the F1 environment. So what's motivational about getting downvotes on your view on a subject. It just scares new members away.
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hollus
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by hollus » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:55 am

This seems to be a case of somebody thinking you were wrong and downvoting as "factually wrong". I guess that was meant for misinformation, hard wrong facts, while here you just gave your opinion. You used the magical words "I think" that we don't see often enough over here.
I guess as more and more people get downvoting rights we'll see more of it. As mentioned many times, the system has an inherent noise and one shouldn't get too hot over any upvote or downvote, but I guess that's easier said than done when it is the first vote one gets!
In any case, the system seems to be magically self-correcting ;-)
OK, OK, looks like Santa Claus is going to survive this summer after all.

WaikeCU
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by WaikeCU » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:18 pm

hollus wrote:This seems to be a case of somebody thinking you were wrong and downvoting as "factually wrong". I guess that was meant for misinformation, hard wrong facts, while here you just gave your opinion. You used the magical words "I think" that we don't see often enough over here.
I guess as more and more people get downvoting rights we'll see more of it. As mentioned many times, the system has an inherent noise and one shouldn't get too hot over any upvote or downvote, but I guess that's easier said than done when it is the first vote one gets!
In any case, the system seems to be magically self-correcting ;-)
Thanks hollus!

In forums I always state +1's or -1's and argument why. So people know who and why it happened. Giving a -1 without letting somebody know feels like a backstab.
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Steven
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Steven » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:31 pm

WaikeCU wrote:... people know who and why it happened. Giving a -1 without letting somebody know feels like a backstab.
.... which is exactly why the site now requires a reason for a negative rating ;)

Pierce89
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Pierce89 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:35 am

As an aside, it seems someone has downvoted 4 old posts of mine in a 1 hour period. They were all old posts. Some people....have issues.
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iotar__
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by iotar__ » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:06 am

Pierce89 wrote:As an aside, it seems someone has downvoted 4 old posts of mine in a 1 hour period. They were all old posts. Some people....have issues.
How old? I had a sudden dislike for February winter test thread's perfectly innocent comment about car gossips/insider info. OK you don't like it, fine, that is your god given right, I can't complain but why do you read this thread in May #-o ?

Kiril Varbanov
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Kiril Varbanov » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:59 pm

Steven wrote:
WaikeCU wrote:... people know who and why it happened. Giving a -1 without letting somebody know feels like a backstab.
.... which is exactly why the site now requires a reason for a negative rating ;)
Steven and all, do you think seeing the reason is a good idea? I mean, I was surfing over the forum today and I spot a post which is -1. I read it, but honestly I couldn't find a good reason why it is downvoted (sorry, I can't find the exact post right now). So I wondered why. Shall we / can we / should we display the reason why a post was downvoted?
Thoughts?

Steven
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Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post by Steven » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:25 pm

Kiril,

I personally think it is good to show the reason, which is why it is not like that.
See http://www.f1technical.net/forum/rep.php?mode=list
People getting downvotes can therefore check why they got one, hopefully countering the issues and worries as explained by WaikeCU.

Anyway, do you think there might be any issue with showing that in public.