Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Everything about this website and its content. Here you will find update announcements or requests for feedback. Questions about layout, functionality, content, and your suggestions are welcome.
turbof1
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by turbof1 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:52 am

Dragonfly wrote: Also, not all of us have the required education and knowledge to compete with some (not many) of the forum members.
I bit unfair too.
I'm studying and about to graduate from applied economic sciences. While an academic program, it's as far from anything like physics as it could be. I think the most important part here is to have insight, patience and the will to learn from others. When I came to this forum I didn't even got an idea how a diffuser works. Currently I feel confident enough to have an opinion about most of the things teams throw at us.

Point is, you don't need to be officially educated in this.
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Diesel
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Diesel » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:44 pm

GitanesBlondes wrote:The voting system is nothing more than a high school popularity contest, and should not exist period.

No forum I've ever posted on has ever utilized, or saw the need to utilize such a feature. I get what the idea behind it was, but it's unfortunately something that is highly subjective in terms of what qualifies as a downvote/upvote.

It essentially boils down to people not liking something said, then downvoting it purely on their own irrational beliefs.

More of a general comment not related to the voting system...

I don't really pay attention to this forum any longer since the amount of irrationality or genuine stupidity on display here defies all belief. It's turned into a fanboy paradise...and fanboys as they pertain to all sports are a turnoff. One F1 engineer I'm friends with told me he stopped coming here due to the fanboy drivel becoming so rampant, that he grew tired of wading through it to find the few genuinely useful posts.

Just my 2 cents, nothing more.
Everything this guy said. This forum was great a few years ago. Unfortunately it's increased popularity has been it's downfall.
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turbof1
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by turbof1 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:00 pm

The voting system did prove its use against fanboyism: posts from -excuse me- morons have been consequently downvoted into being hidden.

Let me take the top 10 reputed people here:

Stefan_
Forza
Crucial-Xtreme
bhallg2k
marcush
Pup
Tommy Cookers
Blanchimont
DaveW
Jersey Tom

The first 2 do massive efforts during testing and race weekend to get the pictures and posted in the correct thread.

Crucial-Xtreme isn't realyl a regular poster, but when he does post, he always does have something insightful or something that shines brilliancy from it.

bhallg2k always is there to hand out information when asked, contributing in a less spectacular way then the 3 above, but he makes that up with helping others out and just generally being a valuable member to discussions.

Marcush I don't know so well

Pup has spectacularly risen since the last month. You have to know that in thread 2 months ago he got undeservingly a lot of downvotes from Xpensive and one other ranting member. The turn around from that point is massive. I believe he mostly contributes in the mclaren threads, but when the butterfly suspension came out, he was there delving right into the rules to see why it was legal. He focussed all of his attention to that one thing and massively helped out others understanding it.

Toomy Cookers: I don't know him either well enough

Blanchimont: Blanchimont generally has superb ideas. He came out with the finger nose long before scarbs did, and figured out what mercedes did with theirs. He ussually also is good with data, and packages it for other to make it readable and explainable.

The last 2 I don't know either so well.

I feel like 6 of the 10, and definitely the top 2, deserve their place in one way or another. It isn't like they are in here for a popularity contest. No they made their fame through selfless actions. The 4 unknowns are I think a bit before my time, but I'm sure if we were to dig in their past we would see similar patterns.

Are there others that deserve more votes? Sure. We have for instance Thewptformula and Matt Somerfield, 2 technical experts we are underrated. The system of course isn't perfect. IMO we should be more looking to how we can adjust the system to be more rewarding towards those who show technical expertise instead of less rewarding to others.
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by hollus » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:11 pm

A comment about the pop-up texts that appear when you hover your mouse over the thunbs-up and thumbs down buttons:
The "this post is not helpful" and "Rate this post as valuable and informative" only appear in computers. For iphones and ipads they are effectively non-existant, and I guess that will also be the case for androids. And an ever growing proportion of users have and use these devices (I often do).
So whatever wording, pull down list, etc. is decided upon, please make sure it is also visible in touch devices.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

bhall
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by bhall » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:36 pm

turbof1 wrote:bhallg2k...contributing in a less spectacular way then the 3 above
Image

Dragonfly
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Dragonfly » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:29 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:
Point is, you don't need to be officially educated in this.
I think this might also represent a problem.

Anyway, this is just my opinion. I am not excited by the voting, neither am I frustrated. For me, on the humorous side, it's a kind of an automatic moderation tool for the mods and a rating for those who can type fast and a lot :).
Maybe because my passion for F1 is slowly fading away and some threads grow too large and too fast to keep with the pace.
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Per
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Per » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:12 pm

My suggestion from a new member's perspective (yes I registered in 2009 but I started posting just a month ago) is to make it easier to find information/rules about the voting system. I've been looking for it earlier, but I couldn't find it. Before writing this post I decided to try to look once more and it turns out that some information is in the FAQ, which you can find by clicking a little link at the very bottom of the forum guide. Please make this easier to find. :wink:

By the way, it says everyone with a reputation of +1 or higher is able to upvote, but I still can't. :( I can see the buttons in the technical sections, but when I click the upvote icon a tooltip appears saying I am not authorized to access this area.
Last edited by Per on Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

motobaleno
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by motobaleno » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:18 pm

turbof1 wrote:The voting system did prove its use against fanboyism: posts from -excuse me- morons have been consequently downvoted into being hidden.

Let me take the top 10 reputed people here:

Stefan_
Forza
Crucial-Xtreme
bhallg2k
marcush
Pup
Tommy Cookers
Blanchimont
DaveW
Jersey Tom

The first 2 do massive efforts during testing and race weekend to get the pictures and posted in the correct thread.

Crucial-Xtreme isn't realyl a regular poster, but when he does post, he always does have something insightful or something that shines brilliancy from it.

bhallg2k always is there to hand out information when asked, contributing in a less spectacular way then the 3 above, but he makes that up with helping others out and just generally being a valuable member to discussions.

Marcush I don't know so well

Pup has spectacularly risen since the last month. You have to know that in thread 2 months ago he got undeservingly a lot of downvotes from Xpensive and one other ranting member. The turn around from that point is massive. I believe he mostly contributes in the mclaren threads, but when the butterfly suspension came out, he was there delving right into the rules to see why it was legal. He focussed all of his attention to that one thing and massively helped out others understanding it.

Toomy Cookers: I don't know him either well enough

Blanchimont: Blanchimont generally has superb ideas. He came out with the finger nose long before scarbs did, and figured out what mercedes did with theirs. He ussually also is good with data, and packages it for other to make it readable and explainable.

The last 2 I don't know either so well.

I feel like 6 of the 10, and definitely the top 2, deserve their place in one way or another. It isn't like they are in here for a popularity contest. No they made their fame through selfless actions. The 4 unknowns are I think a bit before my time, but I'm sure if we were to dig in their past we would see similar patterns.

Are there others that deserve more votes? Sure. We have for instance Thewptformula and Matt Somerfield, 2 technical experts we are underrated. The system of course isn't perfect. IMO we should be more looking to how we can adjust the system to be more rewarding towards those who show technical expertise instead of less rewarding to others.


well...when I read things like this, I get really worried...
definetely this forum is a good place guys. just get rid of this childlish REWARDING (???) system

Phil
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Phil » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:43 pm

IMO the voting system has some validity. If you take it away and reduce it to a 'report'-button that some have suggested, you increase the load on moderators considerably, who will then get more 'trash' to dig through. The voting systems biggest potential is that it should influence members to post in a more constructive, less agressive or bickering kind of way. This in turn should lead to an overal quality improvement across the board, with less having to be reported and at the same time, less moderatoration required, which should be a win/win for all of us.

I also think it's a good idea that the 'power to downvote' only comes once you've achieved a certain rank or votes. I trust the 'respected members' of this board to make the right decisions when downvoting.

What I do find very important though is that the voting system isn't abused to 'disagree' with someone. You can be objective and have a brilliant debate/discussion without the necessity to be in agreement. It should be a tool to influence constructive posts and reward posts/members that go through substantial effort to achieve this (may this be through thoughtout post or technical analysis).

Just my 2 cents.
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CBeck113
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by CBeck113 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:06 pm

bhallg2k wrote:
turbof1 wrote:bhallg2k...contributing in a less spectacular way then the 3 above
http://i.imgur.com/205FGMQ.jpg
Or so:
Image
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BlackSwan
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by BlackSwan » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:16 pm

EDIT: wrong section sorry :(

Hi,

IMHO one missing thing is the reference number for the single post. At least I've not seen it. It could be usefull especially when refering to a post of several previous pages. :wink:

For what concern the rest I think it is ok :) :D

Steven
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Steven » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:40 pm

BlackSwan wrote:... One missing thing is the reference number for the single post. At least I've not seen it. It could be usefull especially when refering to a post of several previous pages. :wink:
To link to any post, copy the link of the little icon ahead of the posts's date.
Image
Right click the icon, and copy url / copy link (or whatever it's called in your browser)

BlackSwan
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by BlackSwan » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:00 pm

Steven wrote:
BlackSwan wrote:... One missing thing is the reference number for the single post. At least I've not seen it. It could be usefull especially when refering to a post of several previous pages. :wink:
To link to any post, copy the link of the little icon ahead of the posts's date.
http://f1tcdn.net/images/forum/post-ref-link.png
Right click the icon, and copy url / copy link (or whatever it's called in your browser)

Two times fail :( sorry again and tnx for the advice!

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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Steven » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:57 pm

Right, first of all, thanks for the feedback. Let's start by saying that, if we didn't know there was room for improvement, this thread would probably not have existed.

Secondly, I wish to point out that I believe, like several others here as well, that the voting system (or rating system as it should probably be renamed to) has already proven its worth, even though mostly on the downvoting side. I have gone through posts that gathered several downvotes, and in each case, the eventual post rating seemed fair. I personally believe this is working for two reasons. First, because the posts get hidden in the thread, allowing readers to quickly skip the pointless items. Secondly, because users with very negative ratings get put on the modqueue and are talked to. This has happened repeatedly, sometimes with positive outcome, sometimes with members getting banned. In both cases, the actions are justified and triggered by the community, which was the idea in the first place.
The downvotes that are given to posts that eventually end up with a neutral or positive rating is where the reason would come in handy, making the posters understand what is happening, and requiring the downvoters to think a moment before hitting the button. As said before, I'm working on that.

The positive ratings is where things are a bit more complicated and less efficient. People who want to see the system go also appear to target the upvotes in particular, as these are supposedly given for the wrong reasons. And indeed, they are sometimes.

However, what is probably lacking is a way to get value out of the ratings. Right now, this is limited to seeing the rating of a post, a thread or a member, but that's as far as it goes. Maybe we need to look for more possibilities here, creating an incentive for people to rate useful stuff while encouraging useful posts as well. Again, this was basically why the system was installed in the first place, replacing the postcount to prevent people from just posting to increase their rank.

Does this all make sense or am I on the wrong track?

In any case, a number of possibilities to make postcounts more useful could be
- A minimum post rating in the search form
- Some sort of highlite of the most recent upvoted post
- An accessible list (like "recent posts" or "active topics") that shows "recently rated posts"

Any thoughts / further ideas?

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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by turbof1 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:35 pm

This might sound juvenile, but how about putting each week the member with the most upvotes in the spotlights? Devote a small article to his contribution, or something like that.
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