Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

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zoro_f1
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by zoro_f1 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:29 pm

Dear friends,

I have not found a suitable subject for criticism of the voting system so I will write in this subject. If you think that my post is not appropriate, than change the location... I wont mind!

I would like to inform you that this voting system is mostly used by fans, not someone who shares expert opinions and therefor this system in my opinion can change a lot! If you want me to ask how, than i would say on the beginning just remove it!

Why?
  • Does this means that if someone who is not a fan of McLaren is not allowed to ask a question?
  • If i wrote in the wrong thread, than the administration is here to administrate and change the location of the post... and that's why every forum has a administration team (moderators, global moderators and admins)
You should act like that!

I know is hard to give a look on everything because there is a lot of traffic with posting but you can always make a bigger team... I know there is a lot of members who can help this forum and I think that you can be aware of that and take that opportunity... and at the end I hope that everyone can be satisfied.

I don't mind if someone can give me a negative reputation (it is not a end of the world yet!) but I do mind of the way of terms of use!

I hope that this critic will not hurt anyone's feeling's because it is not my intention, but I do hope for making a more durable satisfaction.

At end of day i still got no answer for what I asked just because I write a post on a wrong thread... :roll:
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 65#p567865

Wooow... is that a massive blow!? :wtf:
Image “The force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded”: [Obi Wan Kenobi]

Phil
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Phil » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:39 am

Came across this post in the torque / power topic, which I find quite relevant to the whole voting system discussion.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 63#p578763
Charlatan wrote:Being repeatedly abused and downvoted for trying to explain the simpliest physival relation is not acceptable, why I once again concede that this is just another beauty-contest forum without technical moderation. There are other sites for this, enjoy.
This is a prime example of how voting is abused. Moderators should seriously look at the posters who have downvoted such posts and perhaps give a warning that the voting system shouldn't be abused to agree/disagree with posts, but on the overal technical integrity of a post.

In fact, I'm slowly nearing the opinion that down-votes should be removed as there is little incentive for it. Up vote posts that make good points, are technically accurate, or "contribute" to the quality of the forum, perhaps through technical analysis or good points that lead to constructive discussion etc. But down voting on the basis of disagreement? IMO far too many posters are abusing this for exactly that reason which isn't the point of the voting on a technical forum in the first place.

Voting isn't and shouldn't be a popularity contest.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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evered7
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by evered7 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:45 am

Can we not add a drop down with plausible reasons for the down vote when we choose to vote? Considering the list of votes is tracked, moderators can see if they are indeed correctly downvoted and leave it aside, else warn the person who down-voted just for the sake of it and maybe look at a ban for repeated offences.

Steven
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Steven » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:22 am

evered7 wrote:Can we not add a drop down with plausible reasons for the down vote when we choose to vote? Considering the list of votes is tracked, moderators can see if they are indeed correctly downvoted and leave it aside, else warn the person who down-voted just for the sake of it and maybe look at a ban for repeated offences.
That is already the case ;)

evered7
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by evered7 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:23 pm

Steven wrote:
evered7 wrote:Can we not add a drop down with plausible reasons for the down vote when we choose to vote? Considering the list of votes is tracked, moderators can see if they are indeed correctly downvoted and leave it aside, else warn the person who down-voted just for the sake of it and maybe look at a ban for repeated offences.
That is already the case ;)
Sorry! Wasn't aware of it since I haven't down voted anybody yet. But the reason for the down vote doesn't seem to be shown if we check a user's reputation changes.

J.A.W.
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by J.A.W. » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:35 am

Steven wrote:
evered7 wrote:Can we not add a drop down with plausible reasons for the down vote when we choose to vote? Considering the list of votes is tracked, moderators can see if they are indeed correctly downvoted and leave it aside, else warn the person who down-voted just for the sake of it and maybe look at a ban for repeated offences.
That is already the case ;)
is this really the case?

Then perhaps it ought to be made more widely known..

It certainly appears that certain members are abusing repetitive down-voting for vindictive/bullying purposes..
..purely based on non-technical emotive 'grounds'.. IMO, this tends to bring the 'reputation' system into disrepute..
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

Phil
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Phil » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:22 am

It's a pity really, the voting system. I tended to believe the way the voting system is implemented, it would encourage more constructive usage. Like for example that only members with a certain amount of "reputation" can actually downvote, as in 'with great power, comes great responsibility".

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case, as I will often find perfectly fine posts, perhaps nothing factual, but well reasoned. When I see posts like these being downvoted, I do have to ask what the point is of such a system. On the contrary, I see lots of "member-whoring" going on too, where certain members will often receive up-votes en masse for no apparent reason, other than who they are. This, even for one-liners, often provocative posts. And I am not referring to any F1 insiders. That can't be what the voting system is for, surely.

I get that perhaps people new to this board mistake the +1/-1 button as a means to "like" a post, or use it to express their agreement with it, but again - it's not as if voting is enabled for new posters. It's a well described feature and I would think that especially on a mature forum as this one, the usage should be pretty straight forward for its members.

It would be great to know if the voting system ultimately feels broken because of just a few certain individuals that abuse it, or if it actually is an inherent problem/misunderstanding/miss-usage by most members. Only the mods know that.

Anyway, I think this place would be better for it if you'd simply implement either a separate "like" button, get rid of the voting all together, or at least disable the ability to downvote. It's not an effective way to mask "rubbish" as most posts take too long to actually 'disappear' (reporting works better here anyway) and I figure that when downvotes do happen, irregardless if legitimate or not, it usually results in whining towards the mods which only adds work and results in less constructive time for them to do more important tasks... like cleaning after spam-bots. :wink:


PS: Maybe I'm old-school too, but what is the reason for having to 'like' posts or upvote them anyway? This is one of the silly things IMO facebook invented (or did they?). If you have a perfectly fine community on a mature board like this one, you don't need upvotes, or 'reputation' to know who is what etc. You know by the reputation someone has built up, his persona over a period of time. Not by the number next to his name. This goes for F1 insiders too. We don't need a number to determine how valuable a post is, nor a members credibility. Every post should be judged individually and for everything else, we have history and experience with that users to give us some context with it.

(Public) Liking is just a means to gang-up. It adds absolutely zero value or information.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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mrluke
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by mrluke » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:00 am

Liking a post is an easy way of expressing your agreement / support for the post without making a separate post saying "I agree" it therefore allows the discussion to continue without pages of posts that add little to the debate at hand.

hollus
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by hollus » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:32 pm

Phil wrote:...it's not as if voting is enabled for new posters...
Unfortunately by now it is almost like that. How many posts do you see with a zero in the rep box? Often a new user joins, makes a first post saying that the new shade of red in the Ferrari is awesome and it will give them two tenths, and gets his first rep-point within hours (as long as he posts it in the Ferrari team thread). The genie is out of the bottle and it will be difficult to trap it again.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

BanMeToo
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by BanMeToo » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:14 pm

Speaking of that, what is with every single post in the williams thread getting upvoted?

edit: the williams car thread, that is. It's like an orgy in there.

J.A.W.
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by J.A.W. » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:22 am

BanMeToo wrote:Speaking of that, what is with every single post in the williams thread getting upvoted?

edit: the williams car thread, that is. It's like an orgy in there.
Yeah BMT, I had a look & see what you mean..

There's a bloke in the McLaren-Honda thread called something like 'Wazoo' who has picked up 40+ votes in a month..
..it really debases the whole 'rep' deal..
.. that & the ongoing/unchecked bullying/vindictive down-voting..
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

Steven
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Steven » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:23 am

There is indeed a problem with upvotes in the car threads, as well as reciprocating upvotes between a few members.
These votes are due for deletion, and I'll try to get that done over the weekend.
I'll update when things are done, but be prepared to see some user ratings plummit :)

Additionally, I'm open for change suggestions, which is the aim of this thread. If it is deemed necessary to have at least rating>3 or something to be able to vote, then maybe that needs to be done.
I have also previously questioned the use of the downvotes, and once wondered if we should just allow upvotes, or further restrict downvotes (less daily, or only for higher ranked users).

One thing that was already decided is that posts will only get hidden with more downvotes than is currently needed.

J.A.W.
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by J.A.W. » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:31 am

I would suggest that application of downvotes be limited to those who can reciprocate the measure, to be fair..

The elitist status quo means that the untermenchen must be pummelled - sans recourse.. & that aint right, IMO..
I know - I have seen most of my lovely well earned/appreciated 'brownie points' swept away - by malevolent bastardry..
Dr Zachary Smith sez..
"Yes.. spare us your ridiculous remarks, you insensitive idiot!"

Diesel
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Diesel » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:37 pm

Can anyone answer this, my total votes have gone down 3-4 points in the last few days, but nothing shows in my history... what gives?
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP

Steven
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Re: Voting system updates - Call for suggestions

Post by Steven » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:50 pm

Diesel wrote:Can anyone answer this, my total votes have gone down 3-4 points in the last few days, but nothing shows in my history... what gives?
See two posts higher up:
Steven wrote:There is indeed a problem with upvotes in the car threads, as well as reciprocating upvotes between a few members.
These votes are due for deletion, and I'll try to get that done over the weekend.
I'll update when things are done, but be prepared to see some user ratings plummit :)
So it's got nothing to do with you doing sth inappropriate, it's about remove some random votes to get a more clear picture.