Moderator ferrari bias

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Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Downtown Canada

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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bean wrote:So it can be hidden where no one sees it?

That's just another form of censorship. Not as obvious and more subtle granted. Hasn't moving this thread just proved my point?
Bean I am curious as to your opinion on my response about cause and effect. I feel you may be of a possibly wrong opinion as to why more Ferrari threads get locked than others.

The burden of proof is on you, and since I have only been moderating for 24 hours, I still have a member's perspective, and that is that many if not most closed Ferrari threads were opened to incite and did exactly that.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Pup
Pup
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Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:45 pm

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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I'm guessing that the reason for this is the closing of the spy gate thread? I can see that; I don't know why it was closed since it didn't seem to be getting out of hand. WB and I were going at it far more fiercely in the McLaren engine thread. And it's not like the subject will ever go away - some other info will come out and someone else will open a new thread and the discussion will begin anew.

But, as for that particular thread, the immediate matter had, I think, run it's course - so no harm. And as for the overall bias, yes I think it exists, but it's far from policy. Tomba is an Alonso fan, and mx_tifosi is a Ferrari fan. That bias will show itself no matter how hard they work to hide it. I'm a McLaren fan, so if I ran this place it would be a glittering shrine to Mika Hakkinen, and every thread would have to begin with an oath of loyalty to Ron Dennis. :lol: No, seriously - it would. :twisted:

This is a decent place overall, and maybe the impala will add a bit of balance to the mix, if he'd ever finish that cud. :wink:

User avatar
WhiteBlue
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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I basically respect the wish of the F1t administration to focus the forum on technical issues. Nevertheless engineering and F1 never exists in a vacuum. Hence General F1 issues will always have ties to issues of rule making, politics and personal views about F1 figures and teams.

The administration locks those threads or shoves them into the "off topic" dungeon where nobody sees them. I don't see much point in posting "off topic". I can just as well save the time to type my post.

I have no real solution for the conflict except the selective use of available sites for my comments.
Pup wrote:Tomba is an Alonso fan, and mx_tifosi is a Ferrari fan. That bias will show itself no matter how hard they work to hide it.
Finally something again, we can agree on.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bean
bean
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Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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"the burden of proof is on you"
I'm sorry but I don't have the energy or the inclination to trawl through various threads to provide proof.
It is just an observation from a couple of years visiting the forum on a regular basis (I haven't posted much because I do not have the technical knowledge to contribute in a meaningful way - I'm just a lifelong F1 fan)
I suppose what brought on my post was the locking of the thread discussing the Bernie book and alonso allegations, although this is just the most recent in a long line of similar incidents.
Sorry if I don't post after this, It's getting pretty late where I am right now :) .
Who is the greater fool, the idiot or the wise man who continues to argue with him?

Ratatouille
Ratatouille
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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A few months ago I opened a thread called "Are We in Communist China?" in which I was flamed for stating exactly the same thing Bean has stated in this thread, and if I remember correctly it all started due to... you guessed it, some thread regarding Alfonso and his lack of sportsmanship and honor being shut down.

Since then, I try not to voice my opinion on this forum, since I don't like being told what I should or shouldn't read. Even Seg's opinions as provocative as they may be sometimes should be kept for the sake of freedom of speech.

Unfortunately, the owners of this forum dictate their rules, which makes them dictators in a very literal sense. Since I am not a fan of dictatorships and above all their censorship towards the opinions of others, I will continue to voluntarily censor myself and not give them the opportunity to do it.

So Bean, I'm with you, but in the end F1T is just another kind of dictatorship.

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:06 pm
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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After 30 months and way too many posts, I don't think neither this very forum nor its moderators are particularily Ferrari or Alonso biased, not any more than the public in general anyway, but there seems to be a politically correct stream.

This might come from the illusion, right or wrong, that F1T is widely considered in the pit-lane?

I believe that locking the MrM thread is a good xample of the above.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Downtown Canada

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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bean wrote:"the burden of proof is on you"
I'm sorry but I don't have the energy or the inclination to trawl through various threads to provide proof.
I can appreciate why you made the observation and understand that what you see is not rooted in nothing. However, it is a basic rule in society and law, that you never accuse without proof, and these are if not serious, rather large and sweeping allegations about a site that to me has seen for the most part impartial.

Even just a couple examples would give you a bit of a foothold. I still stand by what I think, that more Alonso and Ferrari bashing threads are started than almost anyone else, so they will be fiery and go in circles and get closed. Similar topics include Max Mosley sex life and Briatores moral imbalances.

Rarely is intelligent discussion to be had in a 'bashing' thread.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:06 pm
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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Giblet wrote: ...
Even just a couple examples would give you a bit of a foothold.
..
I tried to be polite above, but when one of the moderators calls himself "mx tifosi", gimme some air to breath? :lol:
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Downtown Canada

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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xpensive wrote:
Giblet wrote: ...
Even just a couple examples would give you a bit of a foothold.
..
I tried to be polite above, but when one of the moderators calls himself "mx tifosi", gimme some air to breath? :lol:
Sorry I edited your post by accident, these extra buttons are confusing me.

I think I fixed it.

here is what I typed into your post I was editing in error :oops:

Yeah I see what you mean, but even someone with allegiances can still be fair and impartial in their actions :)

Either way, I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who is a mod and accused of bias will be extra careful in the future to not display it, so in a sense, Bean's concerns are being addressed, whether they actually exist or not.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

xpensive
xpensive
378
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:06 pm
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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Having such an individual as moderator, when reading his sometimes less than pefectly balanced and impartial posts,
might actually be taken as a bit of a provocation by certain members, not by me but one or two others comes to mind.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Agenda_Is_Incorrect
Agenda_Is_Incorrect
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:07 pm

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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Ratatouille wrote:Unfortunately, the owners of this forum dictate their rules, which makes them dictators in a very literal sense. Since I am not a fan of dictatorships and above all their censorship towards the opinions of others, I will continue to voluntarily censor myself and not give them the opportunity to do it.

So Bean, I'm with you, but in the end F1T is just another kind of dictatorship.
That's why this is a forum, not a country or a democracy. Nor it's desirable or necessarily good.

Ultimately this is Tomba's dream and property, as it's his right to be. What makes or breaks this as a good place to be is how he handles it and if you like it or not, just like 99% of the forums.
I've been censored by a moderation team that rather see people dying and being shot at terrorist attacks than allowing people to speak the truth. That's racist apparently.

God made Trump win for a reason.

nipo
nipo
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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Guys if I remember right mx_tifosi has only been a mod for what, 2 months at most? I suppose you can keep him out of this since bean's original accusation stretches back a good few years? If I were him I'll feel quite offended now.

I personally feel this thread should be kept a little longer - the problem of closing a thread is it will never be visible to some rather infrequent, yet long-time readers of the forum.

And there needs to be some thought on this: should anyone bother to even start an Alonso thread going forward? Because, according to our mods, it'll be a bashing/fanboy thread with no technical information or objectivity anyway.

bhall
bhall
370
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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Ratatouille wrote:Unfortunately, the owners of this forum dictate their rules, which makes them dictators in a very literal sense. Since I am not a fan of dictatorships and above all their censorship towards the opinions of others, I will continue to voluntarily censor myself and not give them the opportunity to do it.

So Bean, I'm with you, but in the end F1T is just another kind of dictatorship.
Were this a dictatorship, you might not be free to leave at anytime.

Just saying.

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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as nobody in life is free of prejudice or false assumptions,to ask a moderator to be neutral or balanced in his views is asking too much and indeed completely wrong .
the moderator should be the one to guide the participants back to the original question if needed and delete things not belonging to the thread.I even think that editing posts is really on .My idea is to remove it ,send it back to the guy who did the offence and give him the chance to do better.

myurr
myurr
30
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:58 pm

Re: Moderator ferrari bias

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Giblet wrote:
bean wrote:"the burden of proof is on you"
I'm sorry but I don't have the energy or the inclination to trawl through various threads to provide proof.
I can appreciate why you made the observation and understand that what you see is not rooted in nothing. However, it is a basic rule in society and law, that you never accuse without proof, and these are if not serious, rather large and sweeping allegations about a site that to me has seen for the most part impartial.

Even just a couple examples would give you a bit of a foothold. I still stand by what I think, that more Alonso and Ferrari bashing threads are started than almost anyone else, so they will be fiery and go in circles and get closed. Similar topics include Max Mosley sex life and Briatores moral imbalances.

Rarely is intelligent discussion to be had in a 'bashing' thread.
And yet the 'Is McLaren really off the pace' thread is allowed to live despite it being a bashing thread devoid of much intelligent discussion.

I love this site, am grateful that it exists, and think that overall the mods do a great job. However I do feel some threads are closed prematurely, and can see at least some correlation between criticism of Alonso or Ferrari and how quickly a thread is shut down. Perhaps holding some of these threads open from time to time would give those that want to bash each other a place to do so and stop them from polluting other threads quite so much.

I disagree with most of what segedunum, for example, says - but I would defend his right to say it as much as my right to reply. It would be good to have the occasional thread where this is tolerated so that we could save the car threads, in particular, for more objective technical discussion.