2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:41 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:58 am
Will an engine change « cancel » the penalty?
I'm not sure, personally I don't think it should, because they what's the point of giving penalties to people who are already at the back of the grid?
It was said that a penalty of that nature would be carried over to the following race if a driver took engine penalties in the next one when the penalty from the race would usually be applied. Not sure if that's accurate or not.

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SiLo
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:48 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:41 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:58 am
Will an engine change « cancel » the penalty?
I'm not sure, personally I don't think it should, because they what's the point of giving penalties to people who are already at the back of the grid?
It was said that a penalty of that nature would be carried over to the following race if a driver took engine penalties in the next one when the penalty from the race would usually be applied. Not sure if that's accurate or not.
Well if he only drops 10 places, then he can serve the 3 place one on top, I guess we might find out depending on what it is they change, if at all.
Felipe Baby!

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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:08 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:48 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:41 pm


I'm not sure, personally I don't think it should, because they what's the point of giving penalties to people who are already at the back of the grid?
It was said that a penalty of that nature would be carried over to the following race if a driver took engine penalties in the next one when the penalty from the race would usually be applied. Not sure if that's accurate or not.
Well if he only drops 10 places, then he can serve the 3 place one on top, I guess we might find out depending on what it is they change, if at all.
Exactly! Complex though, and as usual, there's probably not a proper rule or allowance for it!

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:08 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:48 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:41 pm


I'm not sure, personally I don't think it should, because they what's the point of giving penalties to people who are already at the back of the grid?
It was said that a penalty of that nature would be carried over to the following race if a driver took engine penalties in the next one when the penalty from the race would usually be applied. Not sure if that's accurate or not.
Well if he only drops 10 places, then he can serve the 3 place one on top, I guess we might find out depending on what it is they change, if at all.
Yes, I think that would have been reasonable for Monza with a worse Sprint result. Go back 10 places and try to go to the podium. VER is lacking only an ICE.
For Sochi...with 10+3 you anyways are close to the end...the big question is if it really worth not to swap everything. Furthermore starting at the end will just end up with approaching turn 1 in front of the Haas. While starting from P13-15 leaves you in the middle of Astons and Alpines for turn 1....bodywork damage guaranteed...

If the tire allocation is similar to last year the strategy is anyways not easy. Ham lost strongly with taking the C3 too long. So I fear you are locked out with going very long due to tire life.

I fear this does depend agian strongly on Q: If RB is strong, I expect a 1-2 as this is one of Per strongest tracks. Then Ver will start behind the Mercs. Not a bad situation given the tow, he can maybe even jump one at the start, switch with Per and do the rest via strategy.
If they are weak and start behind the Mercs, the 10 place drop is the most sensitive thing to do. They anyways start behind McLarens or Ferraris. Means the Mercs are gone.

matt_b
matt_b
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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No way are Red Bull taking an engine penalty in Sochi if Max qualifies P1/P2 and starts P4/P5 because he can still win from that position with a good start, I would expect the penalty to be taken as late as possible probably Brazil then they can go full power for final 4 races.

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adrianjordan
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Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:41 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:58 am
Will an engine change « cancel » the penalty?
I'm not sure, personally I don't think it should, because they what's the point of giving penalties to people who are already at the back of the grid?
Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but what would happen if a Haas were given a grid drop penalty? Would they never actually serve it? 🤔
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

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RZS10
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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It's not even a hypothetical since it happened in Spain, Mazepin got a +3 for holding up Norris, was last in quali and nothing happened - So it'll be interesting to see what would happen should they really swap out the engine.
Last edited by RZS10 on Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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RZS10 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:14 pm
It's not even a hypothetical since it happened in Spain, Mazepin got a +3 for holding up Norris, was last in quali and nothing happened - it wasn't changed to an in race time penalty like Max' grid drop in Canada 2015. So it'll be interesting to see what would happen should they really swap out the engine.
Then again, even an in race time penalty isn't a punishment or deterrent for anyone who is likely to qualify and finish 19th or 20th every race as they have literally nothing to lose from any of those things. (Sorry, going mildly off topic)

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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True, ultimately it's just the license points that add up.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I doubt Verstappen can do with just an ICE, probably the TC and MGU-K were hampered to by the sudden loss of cooling.

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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LaplacesDemon wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:58 pm
etusch wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:29 pm
dxpetrov wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:03 am
Don't be surprised if Hamilton had to change the engine next race. His engineer told told him the engine was cooked when he tried to reverse and continue.
I also expect that he lost his engine if plenum broke and if it didn't broke I will be surprized veeery much.

Verstappen also should take penalty if they will change it eventually. If they both do it in same race then both start back of pack and if we can watch a race like 2005 suzuka it would be great
Plenums, hydraulics and looms in that area are one of the few remaining PU components that can be replaced without penalty provided they are of identical specification.
I thought Redbull car hit merc's engine cover. But I think there is not damage at engine cover. But if it were damaged it would cause many broken parts went in the cylinder. at least I thought in this way.

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:39 pm
I doubt Verstappen can do with just an ICE, probably the TC and MGU-K were hampered to by the sudden loss of cooling.
Hope so, I fear they will change the ES too to the new spec and therefore have to start from the pitlane

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:09 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:39 pm
I doubt Verstappen can do with just an ICE, probably the TC and MGU-K were hampered to by the sudden loss of cooling.
Hope so, I fear they will change the ES too to the new spec and therefore have to start from the pitlane
I think the PU components are all locked this year, so no new spec allowed. A start from the pitlane is the rule when you change something in parc ferme for another spec (between start from qualifying till after the race start).

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:05 pm
LaplacesDemon wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:58 pm
etusch wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:29 pm


I also expect that he lost his engine if plenum broke and if it didn't broke I will be surprized veeery much.

Verstappen also should take penalty if they will change it eventually. If they both do it in same race then both start back of pack and if we can watch a race like 2005 suzuka it would be great
Plenums, hydraulics and looms in that area are one of the few remaining PU components that can be replaced without penalty provided they are of identical specification.
I thought Redbull car hit merc's engine cover. But I think there is not damage at engine cover. But if it were damaged it would cause many broken parts went in the cylinder. at least I thought in this way.
These PU’s have an air filter, debris wouldn’t reach the cylinders.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:39 pm
I doubt Verstappen can do with just an ICE, probably the TC and MGU-K were hampered to by the sudden loss of cooling.
They tested the PU in Hungary. It was only retired because of cracks in the casing, nothing wrong with the other components are communicated