2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Macklaren
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Looking like mandated FP1 for rookies at non sprint race events next year. McLaren will definitely need a reserve driver now. Pato? DeVries?

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Macklaren wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:09 pm
Looking like mandated FP1 for rookies at non sprint race events next year. McLaren will definitely need a reserve driver now. Pato? DeVries?
Not sure how it works (do they need superlicence points?) but Pato is unlikely as he is probably going to run a full season in IndyCar. He may be able to step in when there are no collisions, but with the amount of races, he probably can't make a bunch of them.

No idea who else is there. McLaren should work on improving their junior talent.

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djos
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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They should grab Oscar Piastri from Renault, that kid is on fire! He’s won every junior championship so far and way better than the other drivers that are being talked about for an F1 seat ATM.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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bauc wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:31 pm
2 days after and I'm still in shock :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSuGCfHBqWA
Really amazing day for the team. I'm really happy to see Daniel back to the top step again! Hopefully he keeps up his form from here on. Getting a win would definitely boost his confidence.

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Mclarensenna
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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RIc had so much more pace in the pocket but played it so smart doing the absolute bare minimum to bring the car home safely. On the restart 5 laps later when Lando said Ric driving too slow and Rics engineer told him to speed up he found 7 tenths the following lap so he definitely had more pace.

Look at the last lap he set onboard. It almost looks like he is lifting and coasting he driving so smooth and relaxed. Ric was nowhere near the limit. He even lifted right before the chequered flag.

Ric just paced himself, did the absolute bare minimum up front all race to bring it home. Absolute masterclass. I think we need to nickname Ric the professor or something similar. Outside the car he is a joker with a fun laid back personality. But Ric in the car is 100% all business!

1m0bius1
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Can we expect Daniel to even further improve after these two weeks? Surely he would do some extra sim work between now and the next race and review and refine what hes learned and hasnt done in the last 3 races vs Lando. Im cautiously confident he will find even more time as we progress more into the season. Hes starting to get on top of it and its showing but I believe there will be more to find.

When is that Damn wind tunnel going to start construction?

Manoah2u
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Daniel has found his mojo back. And i think things will actually go upward from here. That doesn't mean some incidents cant occur which might still 'scare' him a bit, but i'd say that especially the win has brought him all the way back in the game.

It's interesting that he, not Norris, has managed to end Mclaren's win drought, and his own.
Yes, Norris was right there, and though he himself claims he 'kept at bay' due to the dangers of contact or things ending bad, and team orders, the truth is that i do believe he might actually be mistaken on being able to 'beat' Daniel. Ricciardo knows how to fight, knows how to win, and let's not forget: Norris did have two benefits behind Daniel: DRS ability and 'slipstreaming'.
Had he passed Daniel, then Daniel just as much could take the position back thanks to DRS and SS.

I also think Daniel could have given it some more beans. @ Zandvoort, Ocon was essentially asking the team to have Alonso step aside because Esteban was 'faster'. Instead, he wasn't actually faster, Alonso simply wasn't pushing. Alonso gave it some more beans and he was essentially 'gone' if you wish. I would argue that it's not unlikely that Daniel was saving fuel, tires and driving a bit more careful knowing the pressure of Verstappen was gone.
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Mclarensenna
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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1m0bius1 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:05 am
Can we expect Daniel to even further improve after these two weeks? Surely he would do some extra sim work between now and the next race and review and refine what hes learned and hasnt done in the last 3 races vs Lando. Im cautiously confident he will find even more time as we progress more into the season. Hes starting to get on top of it and its showing but I believe there will be more to find.

When is that Damn wind tunnel going to start construction?
I think Rics performance on sunday could be maostly due to the fact this track is less reliant on these strange counter intuitive driving traits Ric is not comfortable with. I do think Ric will find slightly more as season progresses but we wont see Ric back to his usual top form until at least next years car.

It is interesting everybody also was saying Sainz was a better adaptor than Ric yet when both up against Hulk in the Renault Ric adapted quicker and beat Hulk.
And this was a very fair comparison as Hulk was both times very established and knew the car like the back of his hand.

Sainz was flattered when joining Mclaren as he had a complete rookie in Norris completely new to the car and F1 as well. So both Sainz and Norris slowly adapted and improved at the same time from day 1.
Compare to Ric who was up against an established, very fast Norris in his 3rd year. If Sainz had joined Norris this year with Norris in his 3rd year, he would have beaten Sainz by an even bigger margin.

Sainz had 3 crashed in 4 races lately which hurts Ferrari with the budget cap.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/carlos-sa ... ble-monza/
And this article Sainz explains he struggling alot with the rear with the low downforce Monza spec.

The difference it seems also is Ric is just more patient and never over drives the car. Sainz is not so cautious hence so many crashes in comparison.
Alonso said it also how along the lines of the new guys do not know their limits in Bakhu after so many crashes.

Ric in the first half of the season had more pace in the pocket he just will not use it and risk crashing so people are judging Ric by the stop watch only which is not the best way under the current circumstances.
There is a clear difference in approach when comparing Sainz and say Ric.

We got a small taste on sunday of Rics talent but next year we should see Ric back to this absolute best!

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Mclarensenna
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:03 am
Daniel has found his mojo back. And i think things will actually go upward from here. That doesn't mean some incidents cant occur which might still 'scare' him a bit, but i'd say that especially the win has brought him all the way back in the game.

It's interesting that he, not Norris, has managed to end Mclaren's win drought, and his own.
Yes, Norris was right there, and though he himself claims he 'kept at bay' due to the dangers of contact or things ending bad, and team orders, the truth is that i do believe he might actually be mistaken on being able to 'beat' Daniel. Ricciardo knows how to fight, knows how to win, and let's not forget: Norris did have two benefits behind Daniel: DRS ability and 'slipstreaming'.
Had he passed Daniel, then Daniel just as much could take the position back thanks to DRS and SS.

I also think Daniel could have given it some more beans. @ Zandvoort, Ocon was essentially asking the team to have Alonso step aside because Esteban was 'faster'. Instead, he wasn't actually faster, Alonso simply wasn't pushing. Alonso gave it some more beans and he was essentially 'gone' if you wish. I would argue that it's not unlikely that Daniel was saving fuel, tires and driving a bit more careful knowing the pressure of Verstappen was gone.

ye i agree. There is no way Lando was getting past. Ric went .7 seconds faster when he got the hurry up. He also set the fastest lap at the end i pasted link previously of the onboard. So Ric was just cruising doing the bare minimum with more pace in the pocket if he needed it. Max with a car 1 second a lap quicker could not get past Ric the entire fist stint so i doubt Lando would have done any better.
Ric had the race under control from the first corner.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:40 am


RIc had so much more pace in the pocket but played it so smart doing the absolute bare minimum to bring the car home safely. On the restart 5 laps later when Lando said Ric driving too slow and Rics engineer told him to speed up he found 7 tenths the following lap so he definitely had more pace.

Look at the last lap he set onboard. It almost looks like he is lifting and coasting he driving so smooth and relaxed. Ric was nowhere near the limit. He even lifted right before the chequered flag.

Ric just paced himself, did the absolute bare minimum up front all race to bring it home. Absolute masterclass. I think we need to nickname Ric the professor or something similar. Outside the car he is a joker with a fun laid back personality. But Ric in the car is 100% all business!
Agreed, you could tell from his demeanour after the race that he had no doubts, didn’t even feel lucky. Setting fastest lap on his very last lap when he didn’t need to shows he was in complete control. Hoping Mr. Ricciardo is fully back to his old self and didn’t just have a special weekend.
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Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Norris did start to close the gap at one time, I remember him coming down to 0.2 or 0.3s at the T4 chicane. I was worried he might be going for an attack so I definitely noticed that. Afterward he had his team radio "Is it best if I stay where I am" and he dropped to a 1-1.5s gap for the remainder.

It's hard to really say if he could have made the pass work and would Ricciardo be able to counter. I wouldn't really spend much time thinking about it.

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Mclarensenna
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:21 am
Norris did start to close the gap at one time, I remember him coming down to 0.2 or 0.3s at the T4 chicane. I was worried he might be going for an attack so I definitely noticed that. Afterward he had his team radio "Is it best if I stay where I am" and he dropped to a 1-1.5s gap for the remainder.

It's hard to really say if he could have made the pass work and would Ricciardo be able to counter. I wouldn't really spend much time thinking about it.
Norris got on the radio 5 laps after the restart saying RIc driving too slow. Then RIc got the hurry up and went .7 seconds quicker the following lap. Norris when he asked is it best if he stays where he is was at that point exactly 1.2 seconds behind when he said this out of DRS.

Norris was not close.
Even before the hurry up Ric had it completely under control. Max with a much faster car was even closer than Norris for many laps and did not even close to an overtake. Ric was doing the bare minimum, keeping Max in the dirty air basically frustrating Max into burning up his tyres. Max even had a big lock up near the end his tyres were so dead from Rics driving. Max had no chance of passing Ric and Norris even less.

FittingMechanics
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:13 am
Norris got on the radio 5 laps after the restart saying RIc driving too slow. Then RIc got the hurry up and went .7 seconds quicker the following lap. Norris when he asked is it best if he stays where he is was at that point exactly 1.2 seconds behind when he said this out of DRS.

Norris was not close.
Even before the hurry up Ric had it completely under control. Max with a much faster car was even closer than Norris for many laps and did not even close to an overtake. Ric was doing the bare minimum, keeping Max in the dirty air basically frustrating Max into burning up his tyres. Max even had a big lock up near the end his tyres were so dead from Rics driving. Max had no chance of passing Ric and Norris even less.
I don't want to be overly antagonistic as it's not needed, we agree, but let me offer a couple of counterpoints.

1. Lando did get to 0.2 or 0.3 during a single lap, it was around T4 chicane and I thought he is attacking. I don't have the timing charts but it doesn't really matter, my point stands. Doesn't mean he had speed to overtake but given that Norris thinks he maybe had a chance, it's not out of the realm of possibility. (it's possible Ricciardo would then be the faster one due to DRS/slipstream leading to a stupid situation where teammates fight constantly).

2. Lando is in the same car as Ricciardo which means that Red Bull comparison does not fit. Both Mercedes and Red Bull were slower on the main straight than McLaren and that is the spot where you can overtake. The fact that Red Bull or Mercedes in clean air is faster does not mean a thing. Now if you take into account that Norris is in the same car (fastest on the straight), but has DRS and slipstream, I don't see it impossible he would have a chance to overtake.

3. I couldn't find laptimes to verify that Ricciardo wen't 0.7 faster or if Lando dropped off.


As a finishing point, I am very happy that Ricciardo won and that Lando took P2. It is good for team dynamic, Lando had his share of success this season and it's very good that Ricciardo is getting a confidence boost. Hopefully this means we will have two strong performers in the future.

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Mclarensenna
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:11 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:13 am
Norris got on the radio 5 laps after the restart saying RIc driving too slow. Then RIc got the hurry up and went .7 seconds quicker the following lap. Norris when he asked is it best if he stays where he is was at that point exactly 1.2 seconds behind when he said this out of DRS.

Norris was not close.
Even before the hurry up Ric had it completely under control. Max with a much faster car was even closer than Norris for many laps and did not even close to an overtake. Ric was doing the bare minimum, keeping Max in the dirty air basically frustrating Max into burning up his tyres. Max even had a big lock up near the end his tyres were so dead from Rics driving. Max had no chance of passing Ric and Norris even less.
I don't want to be overly antagonistic as it's not needed, we agree, but let me offer a couple of counterpoints.

1. Lando did get to 0.2 or 0.3 during a single lap, it was around T4 chicane and I thought he is attacking. I don't have the timing charts but it doesn't really matter, my point stands. Doesn't mean he had speed to overtake but given that Norris thinks he maybe had a chance, it's not out of the realm of possibility. (it's possible Ricciardo would then be the faster one due to DRS/slipstream leading to a stupid situation where teammates fight constantly).

2. Lando is in the same car as Ricciardo which means that Red Bull comparison does not fit. Both Mercedes and Red Bull were slower on the main straight than McLaren and that is the spot where you can overtake. The fact that Red Bull or Mercedes in clean air is faster does not mean a thing. Now if you take into account that Norris is in the same car (fastest on the straight), but has DRS and slipstream, I don't see it impossible he would have a chance to overtake.

3. I couldn't find laptimes to verify that Ricciardo wen't 0.7 faster or if Lando dropped off.


As a finishing point, I am very happy that Ricciardo won and that Lando took P2. It is good for team dynamic, Lando had his share of success this season and it's very good that Ricciardo is getting a confidence boost. Hopefully this means we will have two strong performers in the future.
You are replying to my post reply by slightly rewording your previous post i replied to.
"FittingMechanics wrote: ↑
15 Sep 2021, 16:21
Norris did start to close the gap at one time, I remember him coming down to 0.2 or 0.3s at the T4 chicane. I was worried he might be going for an attack so I definitely noticed that. Afterward he had his team radio "Is it best if I stay where I am" and he dropped to a 1-1.5s gap for the remainder.

It's hard to really say if he could have made the pass work and would Ricciardo be able to counter. I wouldn't really spend much time thinking about it. "

<------Are you claiming he was .2 seconds behind then the radio call and he fell back to 1-1.5 seconds gap after the radio call???
As unfortunately did not happen at all. Lando came on the radio 5 laps after the restart to say Ric driving slow and to speed up and Lando was exactly .6 seconds behind in the DRS at that exact moment of the radio broadcast.

Lando had the DRS and looked to me like he was trying to pass Ric but could not get close enough.

Why did Lando ask Ric to pick up the pace though? Well he had a car right behind in DRS about to overtake him so he was vulnerable and wanted Ric to pick up the pace which is understandable and the team made the call to Ric.

Ric immediately went exactly .7 seconds quicker than his previous lap. So Ric sped up and clearly had way more pace in the pocket to be able to do that. It was literally on the TV coverage with the lap time on the screen if you watched the sky sports coverage.
And when Lando came on the radio saying should i stay where i am 10 laps after the restart, he was 1.2 seconds seconds behind Ric out of DRS range.
Rewatch the race again my friend you will see it very clear :)

Not taking anything away from Norris he drove a flawless race. But there is no evidence he could have overtaken Ric as Ric was just managing the pace up front and very in control.

DragonSGC
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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For Reference here is a nifty lap time compare tool thats handy for such situations: https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2021/gp/s8108/lap_times

I think both had pace in hand, but as other ahead had suggested if lando passed Daniel he would just be as capable in repassing Norris such that they were so evenly matched, essentially after the hurry up they swapped places almost every lap in which car was the quicker and each time it wasnt by much, if the team had a allowed a battle risks of it ending poorly were high and even then it didnt matter the order they finished in the teams points gain would be the same and all it would do is tick someone off.