Mercedes W12

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Image

Image

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Wow, that is bad. The line drawn in the side on view is obviously in mid air. Expect better from the usually excellent Scarbs.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:17 pm
Wow, that is bad. The line drawn in the side on view is obviously in mid air. Expect better from the usually excellent Scarbs.
I don’t think it’s about the distance. It’s about the angle of floor relative to the surface.

Doesn’t appear to be an exercise aimed at precision, but it is plain to see the increased rake Merc are running this year to cope with the floor, brake duct, and diffuser cuts.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W12

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zibby43 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:19 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:17 pm
Wow, that is bad. The line drawn in the side on view is obviously in mid air. Expect better from the usually excellent Scarbs.
I don’t think it’s about the distance. It’s about the angle of floor relative to the surface.

Doesn’t appear to be an exercise aimed at precision, but it is plain to see the increased rake Merc are running this year to cope with the floor, brake duct, and diffuser cuts.
Even then, looking at the view of Bottas's car, you can see the top line is drawn much steeper than the floor. Again, poor show.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:55 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:19 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:17 pm

Wow, that is bad. The line drawn in the side on view is obviously in mid air. Expect better from the usually excellent Scarbs.
I don’t think it’s about the distance. It’s about the angle of floor relative to the surface.

Doesn’t appear to be an exercise aimed at precision, but it is plain to see the increased rake Merc are running this year to cope with the floor, brake duct, and diffuser cuts.
Even then, looking at the view of Bottas's car, you can see the top line is drawn much steeper than the floor. Again, poor show.
I think we’re just interpreting the intent differently, which is fine.

I look at the lines, which appear to be drawn by hand (or perhaps a finger) to highlight the areas in question, where the compression he is pointing out is clearly visible.

For example, if you follow that line to the front axle, the general gist of the angle is there, even if the bit that is actually drawn on isn’t obscuring the rear bit perfectly.

If you’re coming at it from the perspective that this is trying to show the precise degrees of rake angle/compression, I can see your point. :D

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Stu
32
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Mercedes W12

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zibby43 wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:57 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:55 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:19 pm


I don’t think it’s about the distance. It’s about the angle of floor relative to the surface.

Doesn’t appear to be an exercise aimed at precision, but it is plain to see the increased rake Merc are running this year to cope with the floor, brake duct, and diffuser cuts.
Even then, looking at the view of Bottas's car, you can see the top line is drawn much steeper than the floor. Again, poor show.
I think we’re just interpreting the intent differently, which is fine.

I look at the lines, which appear to be drawn by hand (or perhaps a finger) to highlight the areas in question, where the compression he is pointing out is clearly visible.

For example, if you follow that line to the front axle, the general gist of the angle is there, even if the bit that is actually drawn on isn’t obscuring the rear bit perfectly.

If you’re coming at it from the perspective that this is trying to show the precise degrees of rake angle/compression, I can see your point. :D
In spite of what several have claimed on here, Mercedes have been doing this for most of the year; tbh, I think that it is what James Allison was referring to with his “it will be obvious” answer to the question of token spend. They just didn’t show up with it at testing or the first few (fly-away) races.
Common sense is not as common as stupidity, but it is better to be uninformed than to be mis-informed...

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Stu wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:00 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:57 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:55 pm

Even then, looking at the view of Bottas's car, you can see the top line is drawn much steeper than the floor. Again, poor show.
I think we’re just interpreting the intent differently, which is fine.

I look at the lines, which appear to be drawn by hand (or perhaps a finger) to highlight the areas in question, where the compression he is pointing out is clearly visible.

For example, if you follow that line to the front axle, the general gist of the angle is there, even if the bit that is actually drawn on isn’t obscuring the rear bit perfectly.

If you’re coming at it from the perspective that this is trying to show the precise degrees of rake angle/compression, I can see your point. :D
In spite of what several have claimed on here, Mercedes have been doing this for most of the year; tbh, I think that it is what James Allison was referring to with his “it will be obvious” answer to the question of token spend. They just didn’t show up with it at testing or the first few (fly-away) races.
I think they have definitely been running increased rake angle this year, and it’s slightly increased throughout (within the scope their comparatively low-rake design allows, as the suspension design is a limiting factor).

I also think they have understand to set up the car better as the season has progressed. This probably would’ve been aided by more development. It’s not shocking to see them start to now mimic RBR’s philosophy for the shape of the uppermost FW flaps.

Finally, as far as tokens are concerned, it would’ve cost too many tokens to completely switch to a high-rake design like RBR or AT. Just too many component changes required. Merc have had to adopt a halfway-house solution, as it’s the only way to help better seal the rear of the floor floor in the rear brake duct area.

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Both drivers will run the old FW in the race ...

Image
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Jozsusz
Jozsusz
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Re: Mercedes W12

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atanatizante wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:09 am
Both drivers will run the old FW in the race ...

https://postimages.org/
But why aren't they using it?

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Jozsusz wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:26 am
atanatizante wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:09 am
Both drivers will run the old FW in the race ...

https://postimages.org/
But why aren't they using it?
Perhaps still collecting data.

As an aside:


pursue_one's
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Much better.


zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W12

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“Eagle-eyed observers have noticed that maybe Mercedes is not settled completely on its 2021 car, with the team having tested a revised front wing at the last two grand prix.

It’s not an entirely new front wing design concept, nor would you expect it to be given the challenges posed by the incoming all-new car design that the teams are working on for next season.

But it does see the team move towards a direction seen elsewhere, with the inner and outer section of the upper wing elements revised in order to alter their ratio of importance between the two sections.

The new design (lower) features a more loaded outer section (highlighted in green), including a Gurney flap, whereas the trailing edge of the wing section has been trimmed near the adjuster.

This is important when we consider setup and will likely see the new specification used when Mercedes runs a lighter downforce configuration, given it takes away some of the available downforce, whilst also promoting more outwash from the static section of the wing. (The section of the wing that’s outboard of the adjuster remains immobile, even when the wing is adjusted).

The new specification was tested on Friday during the last two race weekends but has yet to be raced. However, it will undoubtedly feature again when the team arrives at the United States Grand Prix and may be something that the team wants to race for some of the lower downforce events coming up.”
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/expe ... h/6685474/

pursue_one's
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Re: Mercedes W12

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That’s very interesting if that is true.
Lewis Hamilton has never hidden his reluctance to use the simulator. For a long time he thought it was unnecessary, but the current title battle against Max Verstappen is so tight that the Mercedes driver decided to use this tool again, as he had already done at Silverstone.

And now it happened again after the Turkish GP: on Wednesday after the race, Hamilton shared on Instagram showing him working on the simulator. The Mercedes car now requires a different handling, as it never had such a high rake as it did in Turkey. The car got a little faster, but with a rear bias that didn't exist before, as Mercedes cars have always been neutral as far as possible.

Bottas did not fully get used to this higher rear end than it was - so much so that his car has its rear end about 1.5 centimeters lower than Hamilton's, but the seven-time champion has adapted. In any case, Hamilton has been honing his new ride for a few races now - ever since Mercedes started raising the rear along with other aero modifications - on the Silver simulator.

https://www.autoracing.com.br/hamilton- ... -mercedes/

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W12

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A 15mm difference in rear ride height is a lot between team mates, I'd have thought.

I wonder what the total increase is between Hamilton's current high setting and the previous car's ride height. Interesting that they've been able to raise the rear ride height and get the car to work - something they had said previously they couldn't get to work.

If the PU is able to give the necessary power and reliability, and the aero works, the car in Hamilton's hands ought to now be more capable of taking the title. It's down to Lewis now, it seems.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes W12

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I'm a little skeptical of that, 15mm is massive for car setup and aero, a couple of millimeters is what you're usually playing with.