Alpine A522

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Alpine A522

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Low downforce test is for future races.

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BassVirolla
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Re: Alpine A522

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Blackout wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:13 pm
Alpine might have changed the cooling layout in Sakhir, but I'm not sure

I'm trying to upvote this, but my browser seems to not supporting it.

It's nice to have such photos of the Alpine; nearly everybody looks at Mercedes, Red Bull and / or Ferrari.

P.S.: This twitter account is yours? I'm already following it.

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RedNEO
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Re: Alpine A522

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Blackout wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:13 pm
Alpine might have changed the cooling layout in Sakhir, but I'm not sure

+1
Fascinating stuff.

stan_french
stan_french
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:58 pm

Re: Alpine A522

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Honestly while this is a fairly vanilla interpretation of the rules, where do you guys see Alpine this season? I feel it doesnt look that uncompetitive, but what do you guys see?

Anything from the way the car handles that indicates something?

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: Alpine A522

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stan_french wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:46 pm
Honestly while this is a fairly vanilla interpretation of the rules, where do you guys see Alpine this season? I feel it doesnt look that uncompetitive, but what do you guys see?

Anything from the way the car handles that indicates something?
That would go into the team thread.

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diffuser
166
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: Alpine A522

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This Silver piece in this picture (red arrow).

Image


would be this piece in this image

Image


Think the RAD is just removed in that image. Anyways, Permane says just floor evolutions for Bahrain next week.

Miami or Barcelona, for the first big package of upgrades to arrive.


https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/03/14 ... r-is-fast/

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Alpine A522

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stan_french wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:46 pm
Honestly while this is a fairly vanilla interpretation of the rules, where do you guys see Alpine this season? I feel it doesnt look that uncompetitive, but what do you guys see?

Anything from the way the car handles that indicates something?
I don't think it's vanilla. It's the same philoshophy as the RedBull side pods just maybe an inch or two smaller undercut.

While it doesn't have push rods at the back and pull rods at the front, this shoudn't be a big differentiator for the aero but just a slight inefriciency depending on where their flow structures are built up.

I think other parts of the car are interesting too.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Alpine A522

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Apparently some of these cooling outlets have been blocked from underneath, rather than from above:

Image

Interesting. So it's not obvious how much cooling they are actually running.

It's a bit strange, why bother to make the cooling louvers blank, with the louver shape in them. IF you are laying up new carbon, why not just make it flat? Or better yet why not just tape over?

I wonder if there is some deception in play.

If you look at the Alpine, it has far too many cooling outlets.

1) Leading edge slot on sidepod
2) 5-6 louvers on top of sidepod
3) 5-6 louvers on engine cover barrel
4) Narrow section of cooling louvers under the sharkfin
5) Barrel outlet to the left and right of the exhaust.

It seems like Alpine have just designed the engine cover so they could pick where the best place is to exhaust the cooling air. On it's own, there are far too many openings when you compare to Mercedes and RB for example.

Another thing to note, with this mess of blanked louvers on the b-side, these bumps had some losses to the internal flow of the cooling exhaust. I imagine once they determine where to exit the cooling air, the panels will become smooth from the inside as well which will reduce the losses internally.

I think this has an interesting connection with the movement of the radiator for Bahrain as blackout has pointed out previously. If they have no intention to use the louvers on top of the sidepod, then they can remove this part of the sidepod completely for a tighter package. They have cooling exits at the back of the car which have been tested.

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diffuser
166
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Location: Montreal

Re: Alpine A522

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AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:01 pm
Apparently some of these cooling outlets have been blocked from underneath, rather than from above:

https://i.postimg.cc/WbbhrzkN/Image-21.jpg

Interesting. So it's not obvious how much cooling they are actually running.

It's a bit strange, why bother to make the cooling louvers blank, with the louver shape in them. IF you are laying up new carbon, why not just make it flat? Or better yet why not just tape over?

I wonder if there is some deception in play.

If you look at the Alpine, it has far too many cooling outlets.

1) Leading edge slot on sidepod
2) 5-6 louvers on top of sidepod
3) 5-6 louvers on engine cover barrel
4) Narrow section of cooling louvers under the sharkfin
5) Barrel outlet to the left and right of the exhaust.

It seems like Alpine have just designed the engine cover so they could pick where the best place is to exhaust the cooling air. On it's own, there are far too many openings when you compare to Mercedes and RB for example.

Another thing to note, with this mess of blanked louvers on the b-side, these bumps had some losses to the internal flow of the cooling exhaust. I imagine once they determine where to exit the cooling air, the panels will become smooth from the inside as well which will reduce the losses internally.

I think this has an interesting connection with the movement of the radiator for Bahrain as blackout has pointed out previously. If they have no intention to use the louvers on top of the sidepod, then they can remove this part of the sidepod completely for a tighter package. They have cooling exits at the back of the car which have been tested.

So those are the louvers above the sidepods, directly to the left and right of the driver. The other louvers are further back, below, slightly ahead of the Castrol Logo and taped up at the Spain test. This would mean, they ran the front ones in Spain and the rear ones in Bahrain. Why I have no clue.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Alpine A522

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:25 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:01 pm
Apparently some of these cooling outlets have been blocked from underneath, rather than from above:

https://i.postimg.cc/WbbhrzkN/Image-21.jpg

Interesting. So it's not obvious how much cooling they are actually running.

It's a bit strange, why bother to make the cooling louvers blank, with the louver shape in them. IF you are laying up new carbon, why not just make it flat? Or better yet why not just tape over?

I wonder if there is some deception in play.

If you look at the Alpine, it has far too many cooling outlets.

1) Leading edge slot on sidepod
2) 5-6 louvers on top of sidepod
3) 5-6 louvers on engine cover barrel
4) Narrow section of cooling louvers under the sharkfin
5) Barrel outlet to the left and right of the exhaust.

It seems like Alpine have just designed the engine cover so they could pick where the best place is to exhaust the cooling air. On it's own, there are far too many openings when you compare to Mercedes and RB for example.

Another thing to note, with this mess of blanked louvers on the b-side, these bumps had some losses to the internal flow of the cooling exhaust. I imagine once they determine where to exit the cooling air, the panels will become smooth from the inside as well which will reduce the losses internally.

I think this has an interesting connection with the movement of the radiator for Bahrain as blackout has pointed out previously. If they have no intention to use the louvers on top of the sidepod, then they can remove this part of the sidepod completely for a tighter package. They have cooling exits at the back of the car which have been tested.

So those are the louvers above the sidepods, directly to the left and right of the driver. The louvers that are further back, below and slightly ahead of the Castrol Logo (the ones taped up at the Spain test). So they ran the front ones in Spain and the rear ones in Bahrain. Why I have no clue.
Why? It's simple imo. You want to test which exit location is better.

This ties in nicely with the observation that blackout has made about the radiator location moving and becoming yawed inboard. Look at the cooling exit on the Mercedes in the same location as the Alpine. Alpine also have the exit under the shark fin and the barrels.

I suspect the cooling exit next to the driver won't be used, and sidepod shape could change around race 4 or 5.

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diffuser
166
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: Alpine A522

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I read what you wrote.
It would mean more of a shift of the cooling from the sidepod to that further back position for the change in the sidepod, not a test.

It wold mean that the idea was already there in Spain because the hole was already there, just the grill wasn't manufacured.

So why then just floor changes for Bahrain race and the full major upgrade package not ready before the first week in May? That would be well over 8 weeks from the first test. Around 10 weeks.

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BassVirolla
10
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:55 pm

Re: Alpine A522

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:01 pm
Apparently some of these cooling outlets have been blocked from underneath, rather than from above:

https://i.postimg.cc/WbbhrzkN/Image-21.jpg

Interesting. So it's not obvious how much cooling they are actually running.

It's a bit strange, why bother to make the cooling louvers blank, with the louver shape in them. IF you are laying up new carbon, why not just make it flat? Or better yet why not just tape over?

I wonder if there is some deception in play.

If you look at the Alpine, it has far too many cooling outlets.

1) Leading edge slot on sidepod
2) 5-6 louvers on top of sidepod
3) 5-6 louvers on engine cover barrel
4) Narrow section of cooling louvers under the sharkfin
5) Barrel outlet to the left and right of the exhaust.

It seems like Alpine have just designed the engine cover so they could pick where the best place is to exhaust the cooling air. On it's own, there are far too many openings when you compare to Mercedes and RB for example.

Another thing to note, with this mess of blanked louvers on the b-side, these bumps had some losses to the internal flow of the cooling exhaust. I imagine once they determine where to exit the cooling air, the panels will become smooth from the inside as well which will reduce the losses internally.

I think this has an interesting connection with the movement of the radiator for Bahrain as blackout has pointed out previously. If they have no intention to use the louvers on top of the sidepod, then they can remove this part of the sidepod completely for a tighter package. They have cooling exits at the back of the car which have been tested.
To me, looks like Alpine, for some reason, wants us (and the rest of teams) to think that there are louvers.

It would be cheaper and easier to manufacture a flat blind cover for testing purposes.

Nevertheless, for manufacturing / tooling costs, make some sense to lay up a louvers part without machininh the openings...

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
81
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Alpine A522

Post

BassVirolla wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:18 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:01 pm
Apparently some of these cooling outlets have been blocked from underneath, rather than from above:

https://i.postimg.cc/WbbhrzkN/Image-21.jpg

Interesting. So it's not obvious how much cooling they are actually running.

It's a bit strange, why bother to make the cooling louvers blank, with the louver shape in them. IF you are laying up new carbon, why not just make it flat? Or better yet why not just tape over?

I wonder if there is some deception in play.

If you look at the Alpine, it has far too many cooling outlets.

1) Leading edge slot on sidepod
2) 5-6 louvers on top of sidepod
3) 5-6 louvers on engine cover barrel
4) Narrow section of cooling louvers under the sharkfin
5) Barrel outlet to the left and right of the exhaust.

It seems like Alpine have just designed the engine cover so they could pick where the best place is to exhaust the cooling air. On it's own, there are far too many openings when you compare to Mercedes and RB for example.

Another thing to note, with this mess of blanked louvers on the b-side, these bumps had some losses to the internal flow of the cooling exhaust. I imagine once they determine where to exit the cooling air, the panels will become smooth from the inside as well which will reduce the losses internally.

I think this has an interesting connection with the movement of the radiator for Bahrain as blackout has pointed out previously. If they have no intention to use the louvers on top of the sidepod, then they can remove this part of the sidepod completely for a tighter package. They have cooling exits at the back of the car which have been tested.
To me, looks like Alpine, for some reason, wants us (and the rest of teams) to think that there are louvers.

It would be cheaper and easier to manufacture a flat blind cover for testing purposes.

Nevertheless, for manufacturing / tooling costs, make some sense to lay up a louvers part without machininh the openings...
Good point. It may just be as simple as that. Budget cap.

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diffuser
166
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: Alpine A522

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You machine carbon fibre?

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Postmoe
15
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Alpine A522

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It's DIY for the mechanics in my opinion.

Only one cover that can function in different ways if you cut it. They can avoid having to stop for a hot spot.