2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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M840TR
M840TR
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:44 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:07 am
MrGapes wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:53 am
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/89943 ... r-concept/

“Beyond that, for the ‘24 car, we're going to have our new simulator online and we’ll have our new wind tunnel online.

“All these big investments, which we know are going to allow us to discover things we don't even know yet because we just haven't got the facilities that allow you to do that yet.

"I think that's going to be the next step if you like, with the ‘24 car, which will start very early next year, to make the best use of those facilities when they come in line in '23.

“That's when we have the opportunity to really begin to close that gap because you've got parity on the technologies you're using with most other teams setting rather than think several steps behind."


Are they allowed to begin 2024 work in a different tunnel than tmg during the 2023 season? I assumed the wind tunnel would only benefit a bit of 2024 initial development from other articles.
They can use all of their allocated Wind Tunnel time for the 2024 car in 2023, the problem is that there wouldn’t be any development of the 2023 car
At what point would they need to stop anyway because of the time to get from development to production and onto the car? We must be getting quite close to that by about now.
There is also the transferability of developments. I mean, what they develop can be as applicable to this yeas car as next years in most cases I would think.
Different parts of the car of course have different lead-in times. For instance iirc the transmission / bell housing design and suspension etc start production sooner than say the floor or wings - thus designs have to be finalised earlier as well.

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InsomniRacer
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:15 am
The team lost 4th and ruined a winning drivers reputation by not designing a car that handles the way Daniel and Lando both asked for, and by being too conservative with their design!
You are categorically wrong. More posts trying to defend a driver who has been let go by the team. It's time to move on. Riccardo has a serious flaw and that's lack of adaptability. The sooner you realise that the better for you and people reading this forum. Switch your full attention to Piastri and hope he does better than Riccardo for the teams sake.

Riccardo will never go down as one of the greats because of this flaw. All the true greats have adaptability. Alonso most of the time hailed as the best of this generation largely because of this even though he has other flaws. No one wants Ricciardo because of this flaw as it's too much of a risk in case their car has something he can't overcome.

What part of this don't you get? It's very simple.

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:44 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:07 am
MrGapes wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:53 am
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/89943 ... r-concept/

“Beyond that, for the ‘24 car, we're going to have our new simulator online and we’ll have our new wind tunnel online.

“All these big investments, which we know are going to allow us to discover things we don't even know yet because we just haven't got the facilities that allow you to do that yet.

"I think that's going to be the next step if you like, with the ‘24 car, which will start very early next year, to make the best use of those facilities when they come in line in '23.

“That's when we have the opportunity to really begin to close that gap because you've got parity on the technologies you're using with most other teams setting rather than think several steps behind."


Are they allowed to begin 2024 work in a different tunnel than tmg during the 2023 season? I assumed the wind tunnel would only benefit a bit of 2024 initial development from other articles.
They can use all of their allocated Wind Tunnel time for the 2024 car in 2023, the problem is that there wouldn’t be any development of the 2023 car
At what point would they need to stop anyway because of the time to get from development to production and onto the car? We must be getting quite close to that by about now.
There is also the transferability of developments. I mean, what they develop can be as applicable to this yeas car as next years in most cases I would think.
I think, when you stop depends on how much difference the new car is over the old car. If you're making a major change like a move of the cockpit further forward or backward, change in wheelbase, etc. Then you have a cutoff at some point and use current year's budget to build those parts. If there is alot of continuation then you just keep bringing parts to this car and evaluate.

Mostlyeels
Mostlyeels
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Even Merc are saying they lack the tools to evaluate this year's car (big surprise to me TBH, though results say otherwise of course).

https://www.racefans.net/2022/09/19/rac ... p-19-09-5/
“We lacked the tools, the simulations and the understanding of uncovering the problem that we would create with the way the car was developed,” said Wolff. “That we couldn’t run it where we wanted to run it. Aerodynamically and mechanically, it was never in the sweet spot. It took us months to undo some of the steps we’ve done.
Compare and contrast with what McLaren has?

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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InsomniRacer wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:07 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:15 am
The team lost 4th and ruined a winning drivers reputation by not designing a car that handles the way Daniel and Lando both asked for, and by being too conservative with their design!
You are categorically wrong. More posts trying to defend a driver who has been let go by the team. It's time to move on. Riccardo has a serious flaw and that's lack of adaptability. The sooner you realise that the better for you and people reading this forum. Switch your full attention to Piastri and hope he does better than Riccardo for the teams sake.

Riccardo will never go down as one of the greats because of this flaw. All the true greats have adaptability. Alonso most of the time hailed as the best of this generation largely because of this even though he has other flaws. No one wants Ricciardo because of this flaw as it's too much of a risk in case their car has something he can't overcome.

What part of this don't you get? It's very simple.
I'm not defending djos's post... I just don't think That there is a standard test out there that we can give drivers that will measure adaptability.

Truth is there is no way to measure adaptability that I know of. If you put Hamilton or Max in the seat next to Lando will they be able to drive the 2022 McLaren faster than Lando or even Ricciardo if given the right amount of time? Maybe if you put Lando and Ricciardo in RB18 for 6 months Ricciardo will do to Lando what's being done to Riccardo at McLaren.

I know people will say "OH yeah Lando will out drive Ricciardo in any car" but is there imperial evidence of that ? Those same people probably predicted that Ricciardo would out drive Lando before he came to McLaren.

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continuum16
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Location: Kansas

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:22 pm
InsomniRacer wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:07 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:15 am
The team lost 4th and ruined a winning drivers reputation by not designing a car that handles the way Daniel and Lando both asked for, and by being too conservative with their design!
You are categorically wrong. More posts trying to defend a driver who has been let go by the team. It's time to move on. Riccardo has a serious flaw and that's lack of adaptability. The sooner you realise that the better for you and people reading this forum. Switch your full attention to Piastri and hope he does better than Riccardo for the teams sake.

Riccardo will never go down as one of the greats because of this flaw. All the true greats have adaptability. Alonso most of the time hailed as the best of this generation largely because of this even though he has other flaws. No one wants Ricciardo because of this flaw as it's too much of a risk in case their car has something he can't overcome.

What part of this don't you get? It's very simple.
I'm not defending djos's post... I just don't think That there is a standard test out there that we can give drivers that will measure adaptability.

Truth is there is no way to measure adaptability that I know of. If you put Hamilton or Max in the seat next to Lando will they be able to drive the 2022 McLaren faster than Lando or even Ricciardo if given the right amount of time? Maybe if you put Lando and Ricciardo in RB18 for 6 months Ricciardo will do to Lando what's being done to Riccardo at McLaren.

I know people will say "OH yeah Lando will out drive Ricciardo in any car" but is there imperial evidence of that ? Those same people probably predicted that Ricciardo would out drive Lando before he came to McLaren.
Very good point. Lando still has not driven any other F1 car besides a McLaren, so how would we even know "how adaptable" he is? I sort of get where djos is coming from (although I think it's a little more nuanced than that); Ricciardo's struggles are well-documented, but Lando hasn't been the most complimentary of these recent McLaren cars either (in terms of handling characteristics). If you want to actually WIN championships, your life is a lot easier if your car's handling characteristics suit your drivers' natural style. RB is clear evidence of this.

In fact, let's use RB as analogy. At the start of 2022, the top 4 drivers were fairly evenly matched. As the RB car has developed towards Max's style, Perez and the Ferraris are still usually close, but Max is in another league. Who's to say that Lando (or whoever else) can only extract the same performance relative to their car as Perez, and if the car suited the drivers' styles, the car wouldn't be magically half a second per lap faster? This is entirely possible, even if the gulf between NOR and RIC would imply that Lando is extracting close to the maximum.

If RB had a Perez-Albon lineup with the current car, the car would look a lot less dominant, even though Perez and Albon have both independently shown they are capable drivers.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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The ironic thing here is that the 2023 Front tires will have increased grip over the 2022a, All 2023 cars will have a stronger front end as a result. I don't think it's wise for Riccardo to sit out 2023, if he wants to continue a career as a F1 driver.


I'd go to Haas or Williams for a Drive.

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djos
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:40 pm
The ironic thing here is that the 2023 Front tires will have increased grip over the 2022a, All 2023 cars will have a stronger front end as a result. I don't think it's wise for Riccardo to sit out 2023, if he wants to continue a career as a F1 driver.


I'd go to Haas or Williams for a Drive.
I agree, Williams looks better than Haas for the medium team imo.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Swed3121
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:10 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:40 pm
The ironic thing here is that the 2023 Front tires will have increased grip over the 2022a, All 2023 cars will have a stronger front end as a result. I don't think it's wise for Riccardo to sit out 2023, if he wants to continue a career as a F1 driver.


I'd go to Haas or Williams for a Drive.
I agree, Williams looks better than Haas for the medium team imo.
Only problem with that is that according to a recent interview with Albon, they have to do “really weird things” to make the car go fast, so for Danny and his Current pain point with adaptability to weird concepts, I feel the more neutral HAAS may be a better option.
Just imagine what would happen to his career if he ends up being smashed by albon.

MrGapes
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SilviuAgo
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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https://the-race.com/formula-1/mclaren- ... ment-rate/

Maybe not fully 2023 car but on 2024 we should be able to use and understand better the new facilities.

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djos
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Interesting, turns out Perez is on average 6.37/10ths of Verstappen so far, versus Ricardo, being only 3/10ths off Norris.

Considering Daniel likes a strong front end like Max, maybe RedBull and Mclaren should have done a driver swap instead of what actually happened. 🤣

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Maax70
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Yes interesting and 3/10th in the midfiled means more than 5 positions in grid while 6/10th at the top results in a couple of positions and everithing is fine....

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Teams have to take different things into account depending on where they are in the rankings.

If you are at the bottom like Williams, you have to get the pay driver. If you are middle like Alpine or Mclaren, you need to highly competitive and equally matched drivers. If Mclaren had the best car this year, Ricciardo would have been a perfect partner to Lando. However since they are so far behind, Ricciardo's performances are the difference between scoring points and not.

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djos
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I think the Perez example proves the point myself and a few others have been making, Car’s that a handle in a manner diametrically opposed to a drivers style can really make things difficult. Let’s just hope Oscar can drive around a weak front end!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.