2022 Haas F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:55 pm
Haas ends the year just as it began. With horrid reliability. #-o
Much of that was the Ferrari PU.

The whole Haas team concept no longer makes sense to me. Sauber is moving to Audi works team, Racing point has become Aston Martin Racing, William's is partnering with Porsche and SAT are still a B team, but have their own factories in Italy. Honda put their name in the hat for 2026 new PU regs, I would not be surprised if they buy SAT. Haas has no project to go their own way and have rejected advances from Andretti on partnership. I can't see how they don't remain perennial bottom feeders. If they succeed, they'll just be a Symbian being.

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Big Tea
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If they are just about covering the financial aspect of racing, they are getting a moving advertising board worth more than TV or Press advertising and targeted at just where they want it.
OK so they are not winning, but they are nor really shaming themselves either. It would be nice to get an occasional pole, as they did, but there are only 9 0ther teams in the world actully lining up on the grid.

Without a high paying driver that may have to reassess, but with the cost cap in place and the outfit increasing in value year on year, there is probably no panic.
With 2 steady drivers they may even be lower mid table next year.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:53 pm
If they are just about covering the financial aspect of racing, they are getting a moving advertising board worth more than TV or Press advertising and targeted at just where they want it.
OK so they are not winning, but they are nor really shaming themselves either. It would be nice to get an occasional pole, as they did, but there are only 9 0ther teams in the world actully lining up on the grid.

Without a high paying driver that may have to reassess, but with the cost cap in place and the outfit increasing in value year on year, there is probably no panic.
With 2 steady drivers they may even be lower mid table next year.
Financially, It makes sense. From a team wanting to place higher than the midfield, it doesn't. They are relagated as middle down until they start to do their own thing. If they get to the "best of the rest", there will be a big controversy over how they're accomplishing it.

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continuum16
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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Haas will probably do exactly what they did in NASCAR; they will use equipment from other teams and technical alliances for a while, while using a rotating door of veteran drivers. Then, they will convince some disillusioned high-profile driver/team owner/personality to join their team (somehow), brining sponsors, new ideas, and momentum. This has not happened yet. (You could make an argument to say Ricciardo could have been that person, although I might disagree).

In NASCAR, Gene Haas convinced 2x champion Tony Stewart to buy into and drive for a complete backmarker team (they were outside the top 30 in a 43 car field the year before), and within three years they won a title and have since gotten another.

Once/if this happens, within a few years they will slowly peel themselves off of Ferrari's back and start making progress up the field. Until this happens, or if it never happens, they will continue to float around in the mid-to-lower regions of the championship.

It's not that different; NASCAR and F1 are not by any means identical, but it's not apples to oranges. It's like oranges to tangerines.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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continuum16 wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:12 am
Haas will probably do exactly what they did in NASCAR; they will use equipment from other teams and technical alliances for a while, while using a rotating door of veteran drivers. Then, they will convince some disillusioned high-profile driver/team owner/personality to join their team (somehow), brining sponsors, new ideas, and momentum. This has not happened yet. (You could make an argument to say Ricciardo could have been that person, although I might disagree).

In NASCAR, Gene Haas convinced 2x champion Tony Stewart to buy into and drive for a complete backmarker team (they were outside the top 30 in a 43 car field the year before), and within three years they won a title and have since gotten another.

Once/if this happens, within a few years they will slowly peel themselves off of Ferrari's back and start making progress up the field. Until this happens, or if it never happens, they will continue to float around in the mid-to-lower regions of the championship.

It's not that different; NASCAR and F1 are not by any means identical, but it's not apples to oranges. It's like oranges to tangerines.
You can't copy aero in F1. It has to be all original to your team with the designs to match. You just can't buy that off the rack. So I think that makes it tougher. Just getting the budgets to competitive(CAP) levels is the starting point. What we've learned this year is that the big three also have better processes in place. That takes having good factories with the right people for a certain number of years to build all that up. Haas are VERY far from being ready. They may get closer on Ferrari's back that when they'll first move out. I presume we'll see a dip when they move out.

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continuum16
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:34 am
continuum16 wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:12 am
Haas will probably do exactly what they did in NASCAR; they will use equipment from other teams and technical alliances for a while, while using a rotating door of veteran drivers. Then, they will convince some disillusioned high-profile driver/team owner/personality to join their team (somehow), brining sponsors, new ideas, and momentum. This has not happened yet. (You could make an argument to say Ricciardo could have been that person, although I might disagree).

In NASCAR, Gene Haas convinced 2x champion Tony Stewart to buy into and drive for a complete backmarker team (they were outside the top 30 in a 43 car field the year before), and within three years they won a title and have since gotten another.

Once/if this happens, within a few years they will slowly peel themselves off of Ferrari's back and start making progress up the field. Until this happens, or if it never happens, they will continue to float around in the mid-to-lower regions of the championship.

It's not that different; NASCAR and F1 are not by any means identical, but it's not apples to oranges. It's like oranges to tangerines.
You can't copy aero in F1. It has to be all original to your team with the designs to match. You just can't buy that off the rack. So I think that makes it tougher. Just getting the budgets to competitive(CAP) levels is the starting point. What we've learned this year is that the big three also have better processes in place. That takes having good factories with the right people for a certain number of years to build all that up. Haas are VERY far from being ready. They may get closer on Ferrari's back that when they'll first move out. I presume we'll see a dip when they move out.
Broadly speaking I think we are on the same page; I maybe should have been clearer. I think what I explained is Haas' plan. Whether it comes to fruition or not might be a different story; but if they want to be competitive; I bet this is how they will at least try to do it.

First; I'm not sure that they will ever make the same jump they did stateside that I mentioned above. Second, even if they do, I think it will be on a much longer timeline. They are very far from being ready now indeed; but similar to how Aston Martin is doing; it is possible to make this infrastructure jump over the course of 3-4 years, provided you find someone with the $$$.

They have at least fulfilled the budget criteria for 2023. That's step 1 of many, many more. They just need to stop having "false starts" so to speak. They improved from year 1 to year 3, and then it's been a nightmare from there.

And for what it's worth, up until 2022 NASCAR teams all built their own cars, albeit on much tighter regs than F1. But still things like aero could make a difference of up to a second per lap, with lap times much shorter compared to F1. There are fascinating stories of different teams (within the same manufacturer, even) having hundred of points of downforce differential. But that is a topic for another time or place :lol:
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

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Wouter
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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The Power of Honda!

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Holm86
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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Haas say the nose and chassis for their 2023 car have been homologated after passing FIA safety tests.

This would make Haas the first Formula 1 team to have received the green light from motorsport's global governing body to proceed with their 2023 challenger.
https://racingnews365.com/haas-beat-f1- ... -milestone

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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Holm86 wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:12 pm
Haas say the nose and chassis for their 2023 car have been homologated after passing FIA safety tests.

This would make Haas the first Formula 1 team to have received the green light from motorsport's global governing body to proceed with their 2023 challenger.
https://racingnews365.com/haas-beat-f1- ... -milestone
It's just the nose and crash structures no biggie. They probably have to seed space to Ferrari who design to the last second, then drop it to production.

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organic
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ScottR267
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Re: 2022 Haas F1 Team

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