Is the RB18 dominant?

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DDopey
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:26 pm
DDopey wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:41 pm
I think there is something to be said about those numbers, but I might not be objective in that.
So then the only sensible thing can be said if a particular driver/car combi is dominant, we cannot objectively determine if the car at itself is dominant. And thus the topic question would be unanswerable.
If people come to an agreement of relative pace between drivers, then any real pace advantage larger than it is due to car obviously. In my view, between the 3 fastest guys right now is no more than 0.1s per lap. Sometimes it can go a lot higher if one driver has a good feel with the right setup and the other is simply off. This is always noticeable when compared to team mate's pace over the weekend, but top drivers hardly experience it more often than once in 10-15 races. Just look at how Hamilton started the year and how he ended it, simply because he got his motivation back.
I think that will be the main issue in coming to an agreement about relative pace between drivers, that will not happen I think. For me, I would be satisfied with an average of the two team drivers to determine car performance.

mrluke
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:26 pm
DDopey wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:41 pm
I think there is something to be said about those numbers, but I might not be objective in that.
So then the only sensible thing can be said if a particular driver/car combi is dominant, we cannot objectively determine if the car at itself is dominant. And thus the topic question would be unanswerable.
If people come to an agreement of relative pace between drivers, then any real pace advantage larger than it is due to car obviously. In my view, between the 3 fastest guys right now is no more than 0.1s per lap. Sometimes it can go a lot higher if one driver has a good feel with the right setup and the other is simply off. This is always noticeable when compared to team mate's pace over the weekend, but top drivers hardly experience it more often than once in 10-15 races. Just look at how Hamilton started the year and how he ended it, simply because he got his motivation back.
There's definitely times where aspects of the car or tyres particularly suit a driver and they get a big margin. We also some drivers are more adpatable than others, they're able to get the most out of any car whereas others need it to be just so.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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I guess none bothered to post the final stats of the season because in the end we all know RB18 was extremelly dominant, right?

Won 17/22 GPs, 77%

We all know stats by theirselves might mean nothing, but there are some stats wich speaks volumes, like this. Winning 77% of GPs can´t be done without a dominant car, no matter how deep Ferrari messed it up, how stellar was Max, or how beneficial was TD039 for RBR, you need all those ingredients for a car to win 17/22 GPs

On a season as long as this, the longest ever actually, obviously there will always be some ups and downs, but the result for the overal season, is unquestionable

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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When we look back on 2022 the RB18 will definitely be seen as dominant. 15 wins is mind boggling by one of the driivers and it could have won four more races too if things worked out.
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Alexf1
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Yeah, and the great thing about it is that they achieved that with hardly any margin on the Ferrari car throughout the season:

% race time difference
First 5 races
Ferrari 0
Red Bull 0.1
Merc 0.9
Alfa Romeo1.4
Haas 1.6
Alpine 1.7
Alfatauri 1.8
Mclaren 1.8
Aston 3.1
Williams 3.2

last race
Red Bull 0
Ferrari 0.3
Merc 0.3
Alpine 0.8
Mclaren 0.8
Aston 1.1
Alfatauri 1.3
Alfa Romeo 1.6
Williams 1.7
Haas 2.0

wesley123
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:53 pm
Yeah, and the great thing about it is that they achieved that with hardly any margin on the Ferrari car throughout the season:

% race time difference
First 5 races
Ferrari 0
Red Bull 0.1
Merc 0.9
Alfa Romeo1.4
Haas 1.6
Alpine 1.7
Alfatauri 1.8
Mclaren 1.8
Aston 3.1
Williams 3.2

last race
Red Bull 0
Ferrari 0.3
Merc 0.3
Alpine 0.8
Mclaren 0.8
Aston 1.1
Alfatauri 1.3
Alfa Romeo 1.6
Williams 1.7
Haas 2.0
Yeah, no. While the statistic really shows how great Red Bull is!!!1!11!!!1!, it completely omits the fact that no one is going to drive faster than is necessary in the current formula. Thus, if you are in the lead you'll run a pace that keeps you in the lead(and out of DRS range), and nothing more.
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Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Even more impressive then as they had to get into the lead first most of the time..

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:53 pm
Yeah, and the great thing about it is that they achieved that with hardly any margin on the Ferrari car throughout the season:

% race time difference
First 5 races
Ferrari 0
Red Bull 0.1
Merc 0.9
Alfa Romeo1.4
Haas 1.6
Alpine 1.7
Alfatauri 1.8
Mclaren 1.8
Aston 3.1
Williams 3.2

last race
Red Bull 0
Ferrari 0.3
Merc 0.3
Alpine 0.8
Mclaren 0.8
Aston 1.1
Alfatauri 1.3
Alfa Romeo 1.6
Williams 1.7
Haas 2.0
In the lift and coast era race times can't really be used anymore. 7 to 8 seconds is usually enough to keep at arms length. A two second wind is sorta the point where there is a close match. In between those is "circumstances".
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Alexf1
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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That's all just personal thoughts and interpretations. If that were true then why did't Merc do that from 2014 to 2020. They always steamed to a 20 sec lead in as many laps. RB18 was only so succesfull even though it had such a tight margin due to the people navigating it to that level of success like driver and strategists. No way a Bottas or a Ferrari strategist could have done this perfect execution

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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In 2014 to 2016 there was an internal battle so naturally large gaps were seen.
2017 to 2018 the gaps were smaller because of Ferrari. In 2019 to 2020 there weren't many huge 20 second gaps if i recall.

In 2021 the gaps were huge with the two leading rival cars to the field.
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wesley123
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:37 pm
Even more impressive then as they had to get into the lead first most of the time..
Yeah wow, they needed 1/3 of a race to get from the back of the grid to first and control the race. Really sounds like the car wasn’t dominant at all.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

mendis
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:10 am
When we look back on 2022 the RB18 will definitely be seen as dominant. 15 wins is mind boggling by one of the driivers and it could have won four more races too if things worked out.
Wins doesn't mean dominant.

Bill
Bill
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Max V is dominant in the hands of other the driver that car is just about level with ferrari.the straight line speed was something special too so pu is dominant.ferrari was dominant in quali so if they didnt have high tire wear maybe their drivers would have been close to Max but i doubt it.

Mosin123
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Bill wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:03 am
Max V is dominant in the hands of other the driver that car is just about level with ferrari.the straight line speed was something special too so pu is dominant.ferrari was dominant in quali so if they didnt have high tire wear maybe their drivers would have been close to Max but i doubt it.
See comment above by Wesley123...........

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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wesley123 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:51 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:37 pm
Even more impressive then as they had to get into the lead first most of the time..
Yeah wow, they needed 1/3 of a race to get from the back of the grid to first and control the race. Really sounds like the car wasn’t dominant at all.
That happened once this season so we agree the RB18 was the dominant car 1 race of the 2022 season.