2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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f1rules
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well i want them to copy! when you dont have the people, tools, know how to deliver yourself, im totally fine with copying. As i was with AM doing a carbon copy of the merc. There is no shame in that, there is only shame in not accepting your position and dealing with it.
AM acknowledged some years ago they didnt have, so they made a copy that made them punch above their weight, and thats totally legit in my opinion. Just like AM/Fallows recently said, they will buy whatever they can from merc until they can build something better themselves. And thats the only way forward in my opinion. Accept the cards you have and play them right. Be pragmatic/rational. Only results count!. Same when im angry with mclaren for mentioning for years they had the right setup, the right people in place. When your car for years dont exel at anything, then you dont have enough or the right people. Until youre at the front, onces goal should always be to try and get high ranking people from other teams, to get their experience into the knowledge pool that hopefully will result in a top car one day.
In my opinion mclaren is falling into the williams trap. We are a proud has been leader in F1 and we do everything ourselves. Even its obvious they are miles of the top 3, they continue with that mindset and that is just completely wrong in my opinion. Suck it up. Your a midfield team, now deal with it, act according to that fact, which means considering buying components from leading teams, like maybe susp and gearbox from merc. And when time is right we hopefully have the right setup to compete at the front. And thats my last fear. Audi went to sauber. Porsche will go to maybe williams, now which constructer will Mclaren end up with, because with these big names entering do we really think mclaren will make it on their own. NO, NO WAY. So Honda maybe? i dont know. But if Audi indeed was on the table incl taking over the whole mclaren brand/car production, which has been a bad business for years, why on earth they didnt accept, is so far beyond my understanding,

But each year in feb i still turn up hoping for a McLaren miracle ahahahahaha

Swed3121 wrote:
25 Jan 2023, 10:44
f1rules wrote:
24 Jan 2023, 21:25
Agree, in short this will be a very important year for mcl. Either they will confirm theyre on a downwards trajectory or hopefully show that last year was just a dip in a otherwise positive trend. Personally im curious about aston, everything they did, the investments, the recruitments, their new tech dir and the interviews he gave, very impressive and much more pragmatic and rational than say mclaren.
On the positive side, atleast mclaren now have a concept to copy for this year, as coming up with great designs themselves isnt one of their strongest sides 😩

BMMR61 wrote:
24 Jan 2023, 21:02
I have mixed feelings on the main issues and claims in the recent debates on infrastructure, drivers struggling to adapt, and overall performance trajectory of the team.

First, like some here, I have concerns that too much belief is put into the angle that the new tunnel will be somehow a magic bullet. It sounds reminiscent of when the team believed the Honda PU was undermining a car that had the best chassis of 2017. Clearly there are still some major improvements needed across the board before thinking of challenging for wins and championships.

Second, the strange characteristics story has been overblown and extended in my opinion. Were it not for Daniel’s dip in form the story would have fallen off the radar. Generally, talented young drivers, which Oscar most certainly is, bring a fresh mindset, and tend to be highly adaptable. The latter is definitely a two-edged sword as they drive around issues more than they bring experience to bear on car development. McLaren will likely rely heavily on Lando to develop this year’s car.

Third, there is an understandable negative mindset to McLaren’s overall trajectory which I take issue with. When fans, as I assume most of us here are, endure a season as disappointing as 2022 was for McLaren, many become pessimistic and say the team are on the downslope. I would point out that the 2022 car was a lemon until such time (2023?) that slipping back down the field becomes a trend. I’m unhappy with 2022’s car which I think was subpar and I’m surprised that Key’s design team got the new regs wrong to the extent they did. Yes the 36 was a bit of a pig but to what extent? 4th place was within the car’s ability were it not for a really terrible effort by Daniel and 4th should have been easily the result. On the other hand the gap to the big three opened significantly. This revealed the baked in greater resources of these teams, especially Mercedes who were able to recover from a rubbish car from the start of the year.

McLaren made steady progress from early 2019 to late 2021, now that’s more of a trend than a blip isn’t it! Slightly lucky podium at end of 2019, a few genuine podiums in 2020, culminating in win and pole at consecutive GPS in Italy and Russia. Yes it tailed off but the culprit for last year was mainly some poor assumptions around the new regs.

So concluding, McLaren need to halve the gap before the new infrastructure is in the mix (no easy feat), Piastri will almost certainly be the driver revelation of 2023 once he settles in, and history should show that 2022 was a blip rather than part of a bigger trend. All these are generally underpinned by my optimism as opposed to pessimism expressed by others. As long as we have a strong fight for P4 and close the gap to the leaders to under 1.0, we should feel encouraged for the future with the new technologies.
Very amusing how you imply McLaren should copy others after an entire article on the technical brilliance of AMR, who’s Only decent performance has come from directly copying the merc and RB18

f1rules
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Darth-Piekus
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1)Personally I am against copying. Mclaren is the history of F1 and in my opinion it's not gonna stoop that low by literally doing a copy paste of a car. It's dishonorable to the spirit of competition and all those teams that sit down and work their own car. It was so satisfying seeing Mclaren beating those Copy Point copycats back in 2020 and it will be much more satisfying getting a championship on your own designs than trying to copy paste a car.
2)For me Mclaren is the Sleeping Giant who has gone astray the last decade. For me the rest are winning because Mclaren are not themselves and when Mclaren gets where they should be I will say that the natural order has been restored. Mclaren was, is and will forever be F1 along with Ferrari and Williams. The others are just flavor and no amount of money or championships will change that.
3)That is my honest opinion btw which some might not agree but that is how I feel from 1988 when I became Mclaren.

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BMMR61
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There is no “natural order”, only the current order - witness the shambles that’s Williams. Makes me sad but that’s the living dead. At least McLaren are a million miles from that but they did live near the precipice a few short years back.

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Darth-Piekus
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That is why I am saying that Mclaren were simply not themselves these last 10 years. I'm being a little romantic but in my mind the natural order is Mclaren being up there repeating the 1988 and 1998 dominations. This current order seems abnormal to me.

Anyway. I hope we are on the right path to come on top and hopefully repeat the 1988 or 1998. Isn't a Mclaren 2023 thread is gonna open?

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diffuser
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Darth-Piekus wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 21:25
That is why I am saying that Mclaren were simply not themselves these last 10 years. I'm being a little romantic but in my mind the natural order is Mclaren being up there repeating the 1988 and 1998 dominations. This current order seems abnormal to me.

Anyway. I hope we are on the right path to come on top and hopefully repeat the 1988 or 1998. Isn't a Mclaren 2023 thread is gonna open?
LOL. Those Imposters!!!
Last edited by diffuser on 27 Jan 2023, 04:08, edited 2 times in total.

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

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diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 03:30
Darth-Piekus wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 21:25
That is why I am saying that Mclaren were simply not themselves these last 10 years. I'm being a little romantic but in my mind the natural order is Mclaren being up there repeating the 1988 and 1998 dominations. This current order seems abnormal to me.

Anyway. I hope we are on the right path to come on top and hopefully repeat the 1988 or 1998. Isn't a Mclaren 2023 thread is gonna open?
LOL. Those Imposters!!!
The real McLaren team were abducted and replaced at the end of the 2012 season. You heard it on f1technical first :wink:

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

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organic wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:00
diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 03:30
Darth-Piekus wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 21:25
That is why I am saying that Mclaren were simply not themselves these last 10 years. I'm being a little romantic but in my mind the natural order is Mclaren being up there repeating the 1988 and 1998 dominations. This current order seems abnormal to me.

Anyway. I hope we are on the right path to come on top and hopefully repeat the 1988 or 1998. Isn't a Mclaren 2023 thread is gonna open?
LOL. Those Imposters!!!
The real McLaren team were abducted and replaced at the end of the 2012 season. You heard it on f1technical first :wink:
Yep, The McLaren Brain thrust has made thier share of mistakes in the last decade ..

- McLaren left in 2013 and went to Mercedes. What was left was just a shadow of itself. That was painful for McLaren.
- Forcing Honda in before they were ready, resulting in Honda being being pinned in by the rules. That dragged PU issues on for several years.
- Giving up on Honda too early, resulting in McLaren giving up on the 100 Million + free PUs that Honda brought.
- Not being able to Figure out, without switching PU manufactures, that thier problems were deeper than JUST PU issues.

Since switching back to Mercedes PUs, thier Budget has not on par as the top 3, until 2021.

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:09
organic wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:00
diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 03:30


LOL. Those Imposters!!!
The real McLaren team were abducted and replaced at the end of the 2012 season. You heard it on f1technical first :wink:
Yep, The McLaren Brain thrust has made thier share of mistakes in the last decade ..

- McLaren left in 2013 and went to Mercedes. What was left was just a shadow of itself. That was painful for McLaren.
- Forcing Honda in before they were ready, resulting in Honda being being pinned in by the rules. That dragged PU issues on for several years.
- Giving up on Honda too early, resulting in McLaren giving up on the 100 Million + free PUs that Honda brought.
- Not being able to Figure out, without switching PU manufactures, that thier problems were deeper than JUST PU issues.

Since switching back to Mercedes PUs, thier Budget has not on par as the top 3, until 2021.
There fault for ignoring the alarm bells in 2014 (being beaten by Williams)

Ben1980
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Joined: 19 Jun 2022, 10:11

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:09
organic wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:00
diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 03:30


LOL. Those Imposters!!!
The real McLaren team were abducted and replaced at the end of the 2012 season. You heard it on f1technical first :wink:
Yep, The McLaren Brain thrust has made thier share of mistakes in the last decade ..

- McLaren left in 2013 and went to Mercedes. What was left was just a shadow of itself. That was painful for McLaren.
- Forcing Honda in before they were ready, resulting in Honda being being pinned in by the rules. That dragged PU issues on for several years.
- Giving up on Honda too early, resulting in McLaren giving up on the 100 Million + free PUs that Honda brought.
- Not being able to Figure out, without switching PU manufactures, that thier problems were deeper than JUST PU issues.

Since switching back to Mercedes PUs, thier Budget has not on par as the top 3, until 2021.
No way did they give up on Honda too early. The Honda engine was horrendous, and a laughing stock for a few years.

haza
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Joined: 18 May 2015, 23:14

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Ben1980 wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 15:43
diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:09
organic wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:00


The real McLaren team were abducted and replaced at the end of the 2012 season. You heard it on f1technical first :wink:
Yep, The McLaren Brain thrust has made thier share of mistakes in the last decade ..

- McLaren left in 2013 and went to Mercedes. What was left was just a shadow of itself. That was painful for McLaren.
- Forcing Honda in before they were ready, resulting in Honda being being pinned in by the rules. That dragged PU issues on for several years.
- Giving up on Honda too early, resulting in McLaren giving up on the 100 Million + free PUs that Honda brought.
- Not being able to Figure out, without switching PU manufactures, that thier problems were deeper than JUST PU issues.

Since switching back to Mercedes PUs, thier Budget has not on par as the top 3, until 2021.
No way did they give up on Honda too early. The Honda engine was horrendous, and a laughing stock for a few years.
Actually In 2016 Honda had a decent engine arguably on par with Renault at the time Honda messed up by changing engine concept for 2017 which let to a ever faulty oil tank and awful juddering when changing gear they both shared the blame Honda for making the engine stupidly unreliable in 2017 and McLaren for pinning it all on the engine 2018 brought out the real problems McLaren had it was draggy unpredictable and a down right dog

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proteus
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 14:35

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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haza wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 19:20
Ben1980 wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 15:43
diffuser wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 04:09


Yep, The McLaren Brain thrust has made thier share of mistakes in the last decade ..

- McLaren left in 2013 and went to Mercedes. What was left was just a shadow of itself. That was painful for McLaren.
- Forcing Honda in before they were ready, resulting in Honda being being pinned in by the rules. That dragged PU issues on for several years.
- Giving up on Honda too early, resulting in McLaren giving up on the 100 Million + free PUs that Honda brought.
- Not being able to Figure out, without switching PU manufactures, that thier problems were deeper than JUST PU issues.

Since switching back to Mercedes PUs, thier Budget has not on par as the top 3, until 2021.
No way did they give up on Honda too early. The Honda engine was horrendous, and a laughing stock for a few years.
Actually In 2016 Honda had a decent engine arguably on par with Renault at the time Honda messed up by changing engine concept for 2017 which let to a ever faulty oil tank and awful juddering when changing gear they both shared the blame Honda for making the engine stupidly unreliable in 2017 and McLaren for pinning it all on the engine 2018 brought out the real problems McLaren had it was draggy unpredictable and a down right dog
They were allways alive in Monaco where engine doesnt matter as much, so chasis couldnt be a complete dog. In my opinion and my opinion alone those cars were draggier, but would perform with better engine. Honda was not as bad in peak power, but they were unable to run it without blowing up the engine, or running out of fuel. 2018 was a mismash of problems. Wrong gear ratios, overheating, and too short wheelbase. Still were good at Monaco.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

genarro
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Joined: 15 May 2019, 10:22

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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What a dry month regarding f1 news this january is... Look at this forum.. Reheating the honda engine saga... Its in the past and thank good for that.

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

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genarro wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 21:17
What a dry month regarding f1 news this january is... Look at this forum.. Reheating the honda engine saga... Its in the past and thank good for that.
Not on F1Technical.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

billamend
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Joined: 02 Sep 2019, 22:45

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