Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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diffuser
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Rasoose wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:48
GhostF1 wrote:
04 Jun 2026, 01:54

Agreed in that compression ratio has extremely little to do with a deficit of this size. It demonstrates an extremely premature combustion system.
Honda literally said they utilised, to great extent, in-cylinder pressure sensors to fine tune the combustion design they developed last regs. And Honda themselves said it was a "necessity" if they were to run the engine in the manner they were. The loss of ability to use them this year, to accurately monitor and tune individual cylinder events, has harmed them massively. This feels like 2017 all over again when they first brought in a TJI style ignition/injection setup... they openly admitted they had no idea how to operate it or get the best out of it but brought it in knowing it's potential and figured it out down the track. Either way, this deficit and their words just HEAVILY suggest they are back at square one again, and their "rapid combustion" tech from late 2018, and later perfected, is essentially gone and probably exacerbated by this new fuel that's in its early stages.
It was also said by Honda that the lowered fuel flow (even though it's now measured in terms of energy) + the lower compression ratio made it impossible to use their 'high-speed combustion' from the previous regs. Even if they could run the 'ICP' sensors throughout each weekend, *and* there was as significant improvement on the fuel side, *and* the 2027 rules allow a bit more fuel flow, I still don't think they'd be able to replicate what they were doing previously.
I doudt that they'll allow extra fuel flow for 2027. When it came up, all the PU manufacturers quickly went into asking for more budget mode to make the change. That would be at odds with ADUO. So don't expect it.

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It's not a surprise in inner circles the RBPT/Exxonmobil have the best ICE combustion.

Hopefully Honda can affect Aramco to get to that level.

mzso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 00:47
mzso wrote:
07 Jun 2026, 18:04
ispano6 wrote:
07 Jun 2026, 10:17
there are reasons why Aramco(Title Sponsor/GlobalPartner) isn't smeared and Honda is instead, even as far as saying the technical expertise of Aramco is necessary to develop Honda's engine in their AMR PR. I'm beginning to think that the generous ADUO granted to Honda is really a mechanism to help Aramco improve their fuel. Especially if Aramco covers the check.
Maybe the reason is that you just came up with this story.
Yeah right, I invented this situation and scenario. People here think they know what's up and truly don't know what goes on behind the scenes. So Honda is solely responsible for the fuel? Get real people.
There are absolutely no news whatsoever about Aramco not providing a decent fuel formulation.

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diffuser
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 21:35
ispano6 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 00:47
mzso wrote:
07 Jun 2026, 18:04

Maybe the reason is that you just came up with this story.
Yeah right, I invented this situation and scenario. People here think they know what's up and truly don't know what goes on behind the scenes. So Honda is solely responsible for the fuel? Get real people.
There are absolutely no news whatsoever about Aramco not providing a decent fuel formulation.
Thank you!

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Zynerji
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Honda need to rebadge RBT engines.

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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diffuser wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 22:49
mzso wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 21:35
ispano6 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 00:47

Yeah right, I invented this situation and scenario. People here think they know what's up and truly don't know what goes on behind the scenes. So Honda is solely responsible for the fuel? Get real people.
There are absolutely no news whatsoever about Aramco not providing a decent fuel formulation.
Thank you!
No news that you've found or put together.

Ask Gemini whether or not Aramco's fuel is up to par.

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diffuser
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 11:13
diffuser wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 22:49
mzso wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 21:35


There are absolutely no news whatsoever about Aramco not providing a decent fuel formulation.
Thank you!
No news that you've found or put together.

Ask Gemini whether or not Aramco's fuel is up to par.
OK...
With the onset of the **2026 engine and fuel regulations**, Aramco’s fuel is not just "up to par"—there are strong indications that it may actually hold a distinct competitive edge over traditional suppliers like Petronas (Mercedes), Shell (Ferrari), and ExxonMobil (Red Bull Powertrains).
The technical landscape of the Honda-Aramco partnership reveals why they are positioned so strongly for this regulatory cycle:
### 1. The Head Start in Junior Categories (F2 and F3)
While other fuel suppliers had to rely purely on simulation and single-cylinder dyno testing for 100% sustainable fuels, Aramco has been running a massive, real-world data collection program.
* They have been the **exclusive fuel supplier for Formula 2 and Formula 3**, introducing advanced sustainable fuels into those championships back in 2023 and scaling up to a minimum of 70% sustainable components by 2025.
* This track time gave Aramco millions of kilometers of real-world telemetry on how synthetic components behave under high-stress racing conditions, including vaporization characteristics and thermal stability, long before the 2026 F1 grid even fired up their new PUs.
### 2. The Power of a True "Works" Integration
Under customer engine regulations (like Aston Martin's previous deal with Mercedes), customer teams are often constrained by the fuel architecture optimized by the factory team (e.g., Mercedes optimizing for Petronas).
Now, with the **Aston Martin-Honda works partnership**, Honda's HRC engineers in Sakura and Aramco’s fuel scientists are designing the power unit and the chemical composition of the fuel hand-in-glove.
> In F1, fuel chemistry and internal combustion design are completely interdependent. Adjusting a chemical compound in the fuel allows engineers to alter flame speed, which directly dictates how high they can push the **compression ratio** without triggering catastrophic engine knock (pre-ignition).
>
### 3. Mitigating the Pre-Ignition Boundary
paddock rumors ahead of the 2026 rollout suggested that Mercedes and Red Bull Powertrains had discovered clever combustion methods to maximize the tight 16:1 compression ratio limits. Reports indicate that Aramco’s bespoke molecular formulation has allowed Honda to extract equivalent energy density and combustion efficiency purely through chemical optimization. Industry analysis estimates Aramco's specific chemical composition successfully mitigated what was rumored to be up to a **0.4-second per lap advantage** held by rival engine architectures.
By leveraging their massive R&D infrastructure (such as the Clean Energy Research Platform) and treating the 2026 regulations as a global commercial launchpad for synthetic e-fuels, Aramco has proven to be fully peer-level—if not a step ahead—of the historic F1 fuel giants.

mzso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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diffuser wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 11:53
OK...
Maybe he's been feeding the opposite opinion to Gemini. AI modells just tend to reinforce what you feed them. Particularly if you coerce them long enough.

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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diffuser wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 11:53
ispano6 wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 11:13
diffuser wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 22:49


Thank you!
No news that you've found or put together.

Ask Gemini whether or not Aramco's fuel is up to par.
OK...
With the onset of the **2026 engine and fuel regulations**, Aramco’s fuel is not just "up to par"—there are strong indications that it may actually hold a distinct competitive edge over traditional suppliers like Petronas (Mercedes), Shell (Ferrari), and ExxonMobil (Red Bull Powertrains).
The technical landscape of the Honda-Aramco partnership reveals why they are positioned so strongly for this regulatory cycle:
### 1. The Head Start in Junior Categories (F2 and F3)
While other fuel suppliers had to rely purely on simulation and single-cylinder dyno testing for 100% sustainable fuels, Aramco has been running a massive, real-world data collection program.
* They have been the **exclusive fuel supplier for Formula 2 and Formula 3**, introducing advanced sustainable fuels into those championships back in 2023 and scaling up to a minimum of 70% sustainable components by 2025.
* This track time gave Aramco millions of kilometers of real-world telemetry on how synthetic components behave under high-stress racing conditions, including vaporization characteristics and thermal stability, long before the 2026 F1 grid even fired up their new PUs.
### 2. The Power of a True "Works" Integration
Under customer engine regulations (like Aston Martin's previous deal with Mercedes), customer teams are often constrained by the fuel architecture optimized by the factory team (e.g., Mercedes optimizing for Petronas).
Now, with the **Aston Martin-Honda works partnership**, Honda's HRC engineers in Sakura and Aramco’s fuel scientists are designing the power unit and the chemical composition of the fuel hand-in-glove.
> In F1, fuel chemistry and internal combustion design are completely interdependent. Adjusting a chemical compound in the fuel allows engineers to alter flame speed, which directly dictates how high they can push the **compression ratio** without triggering catastrophic engine knock (pre-ignition).
>
### 3. Mitigating the Pre-Ignition Boundary
paddock rumors ahead of the 2026 rollout suggested that Mercedes and Red Bull Powertrains had discovered clever combustion methods to maximize the tight 16:1 compression ratio limits. Reports indicate that Aramco’s bespoke molecular formulation has allowed Honda to extract equivalent energy density and combustion efficiency purely through chemical optimization. Industry analysis estimates Aramco's specific chemical composition successfully mitigated what was rumored to be up to a **0.4-second per lap advantage** held by rival engine architectures.
By leveraging their massive R&D infrastructure (such as the Clean Energy Research Platform) and treating the 2026 regulations as a global commercial launchpad for synthetic e-fuels, Aramco has proven to be fully peer-level—if not a step ahead—of the historic F1 fuel giants.
LOL. You would be terrible at investigative journalism. You forgot to tell it to disregard the PR FLUFF.
Here's one hint: ask it what is Honda's "matching" problem with Aramco's fuel, the symptoms of the vibrations, and necessity to alter maps for reliability. Again, I stated before, it's not the energy density, it's the consistency of the fuel burn and shape relative to the geometry.

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 12:03
diffuser wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 11:53
OK...
Maybe he's been feeding the opposite opinion to Gemini. AI modells just tend to reinforce what you feed them. Particularly if you coerce them long enough.
It will regurgitate barf if you feed it barf, which is what a majority of the internet fan sites produce.

It will start to make sense of the truth from various nuggets of wisdom and morsels of truth.

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ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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what is honda's matching problem with aramco's fuel?

The "matching" problem between Honda's RA626H power unit and Aramco’s advanced sustainable fuel is a central technical challenge of the 2026 F1 regulations. It is not a matter of the fuel being "bad," but rather a fundamental integration gap that stems from the specific demands of the new rules.

The Core Technical Challenge
In the 2026 regulatory era, the fuel is no longer an external commodity; it is a dynamic, calibrated component of the power unit's combustion system. The RA626H engine is designed to operate at the razor’s edge of efficiency, requiring a precise "handshake" between the fuel’s chemical properties (volatility, flame speed, and knock-resistance) and the engine’s internal hardware.

Key factors driving this "matching" struggle include:

The Loss of Historical Benchmarks: Honda previously relied on long-term, iterative data from ExxonMobil—a partnership that served as a benchmark for recent F1 success. Aramco is a first-time F1 fuel supplier for these specific 2026 regulations. Honda’s HRC engineers have had to "start fresh" to map the combustion characteristics of Aramco’s proprietary synthetic molecules against their hardware.
www.the-race.com

Combustion Sensitivity: The 2026 regulations involve a 50/50 power split between the internal combustion engine (ICE) and the electric motor. To maintain performance, the ICE must be optimized for peak efficiency. If the fuel’s burn rate deviates even slightly from the engine’s mapped ignition timing, it leads to combustion instability or knock. When this happens, the engine management system (ECU) must automatically pull timing to protect the hardware, directly resulting in a performance deficit.
www.carexpert.com.au

Harmonic Synchronization: As you’ve observed in engineering circles, irregular combustion leads to non-uniform torque pulses. In a highly stressed, high-RPM environment, these pulses can trigger unwanted harmonic resonance in the engine and chassis. Managing these vibrations—often described as "friction" or integration issues—requires the fuel and combustion mapping to be perfectly "in sync" to prevent the engine from vibrating excessively or operating outside its design window.

Why This Is a "First-Year" Reality
The struggle is largely an institutional knowledge gap. Established works partnerships, such as Mercedes/Petronas or Ferrari/Shell, have decades of cumulative data on how specific fuel additives affect flame-front propagation and boundary-layer lubrication in their specific hardware.

Honda and Aramco are currently in the "discovery phase" of this relationship. Every time they encounter a new limitation—whether it’s a heat rejection issue, a vibration concern, or a power drop-off—they are forced to run extensive dyno testing (notably at their facility in Sakura) to find the software or chemistry "patch" that allows them to unlock more performance without risking hardware integrity.

In short, the "matching" problem is the "Integration Tax." They are building a high-performance system from a clean sheet while their rivals are refining architectures that have benefited from years of stable fuel-to-engine co-development.

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diffuser
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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This is funny "Aramco is a first-time F1 fuel supplier for these specific 2026 regulations."

Everybody is.

mzso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ispano6 wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 12:23
mzso wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 12:03
diffuser wrote:
09 Jun 2026, 11:53
OK...
Maybe he's been feeding the opposite opinion to Gemini. AI modells just tend to reinforce what you feed them. Particularly if you coerce them long enough.
It will regurgitate barf if you feed it barf, which is what a majority of the internet fan sites produce.

It will start to make sense of the truth from various nuggets of wisdom and morsels of truth.
And you did the same with this Aramco narrative of yours...
But you pretend it a discovery when you do it.

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peewon
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Aramco seamlessly transitioned F2 into 100% sustainable fuels without any drop off in performance or reliability and without requiring any modifictations to the existing power units. If anything, they have the most real world tested and validated by Mechachrome which is the F2 engine supplier.

“This is where Mecachrome play their role, because Aramco is providing a great product, but Mecachrome have to do their part and make sure that it works with the engine we use.”

https://www.fiaformula2.com/Latest/3c8s ... behind-the

FNTC
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Orihara himself last week: https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/asto ... il-summer/
“We know where we need to improve," said Orihara.

"For example, on the combustion side we have some ideas to improve and we have seen some positive signs on the dyno data.

“Also, we need to reduce friction to improve performance. So that type of list we have now in the factory, and we keep working to improve those things. Then once we get something, we will boost our development phase.”

Asked about the timeframe for the next development step to come through, Orihara said: “Engine development is a long-term job, but it won’t be at the end of the season.

“At some point, let's say around the summer shutdown, we will see some improvement. That is our target.”