2026 Hybrid Powerunits

[Hoffman900]

Peak power and the power band are not the same thing. It is like the difference between the Renault V8 and Mercedes V8 in 2010-2014.

The ICE measurements will also fail to take into account exhaust flow restrictions induced by the flick tail mode. Ferrari sacrificed some horsepower when they put a cap over half of the exhaust pipe, and they also sacrified some power when they used the minimum cross section tail pipe in order to speed up the exhaust air flow for the flick tail mode.

I don't understand how it would have been possible for the FIA to take into account these basic concepts, and without taking this into account the results of the ADUO can be distorted.

I’m sure the FIA is looking at a lot more than peak power…

[AR3-GP]

Peak power and the power band are not the same thing. It is like the difference between the Renault V8 and Mercedes V8 in 2010-2014.

The ICE measurements will also fail to take into account exhaust flow restrictions induced by the flick tail mode. Ferrari sacrificed some horsepower when they put a cap over half of the exhaust pipe, and they also sacrified some power when they used the minimum cross section tail pipe in order to speed up the exhaust air flow for the flick tail mode.

I don't understand how it would have been possible for the FIA to take into account these basic concepts, and without taking this into account the results of the ADUO can be distorted.

I’m sure the FIA is looking at a lot more than peak power…

My point is this is just one of numerous challenges, not that it is THE challenge. That's the issue with no transparency. We don't know.

Furthermore the point is they are looking at combustion engine to dictate hybrid system development tokens. The leading team on the ICE measurements will be subject to a hybrid system freeze until 2028. There are numerous mechanisms by way this system is not the catchup mechanism that it is supposed to be. It is possible instead for it to grant the real lead PU (Mercedes) and even greater opportunity to get ahead.

Hybrid systems are a big development area and in a 50/50 formula it makes no sense that hybrid system would not be a performance index for "catch up".

viewtopic.php?p=1345433#p1345433

[Hoffman900]

There is an argument to be made here that the manufacturers did agree to this, so right or wrong, it is what it is from that standpoint.

[AR3-GP]

There is an argument to be made here that the manufacturers did agree to this, so right or wrong, it is what it is from that standpoint.

They also agreed to the 50/50 regulations. This is just my opinion. I have no decision-making power.

[gearboxtrouble]

Interesting article from the race that suggests that Ferrari is now looking at doing a u turn on its opposition to the 60/40 proposal for 2027. They had assumed that Mercedes would be the benchmark and opposed the 27 change do that it could maximize its perceived ADUO advantage over them but with Mercedes now also qualifying for ADUO, they might conclude that their best move is to push for an all new engine for 27.

[gearboxtrouble]

Interesting article from the race that suggests that Ferrari is now looking at doing a u turn on its opposition to the 60/40 proposal for 2027. They had assumed that Mercedes would be the benchmark and opposed the 27 change do that it could maximize its perceived ADUO advantage over them but with Mercedes now also qualifying for ADUO, they might conclude that their best move is to push for an all new engine for 27.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-s ... sequences/

[AR3-GP]

Interesting article from the race that suggests that Ferrari is now looking at doing a u turn on its opposition to the 60/40 proposal for 2027. They had assumed that Mercedes would be the benchmark and opposed the 27 change do that it could maximize its perceived ADUO advantage over them but with Mercedes now also qualifying for ADUO, they might conclude that their best move is to push for an all new engine for 27.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-s ... sequences/

It's so tiring watching self-interest destroy F1.

[djones]

Mercedes must be pissing themselves.

Not only made the best PU, but played the system to gain an upgrade. Fair play to them.

[TimW]

The problem is the FIA keeping the measurement method secret. No transparancy. Nothing stays secret within this environment, so teams will get inside knowledge on how to play the system. So teams more, others less. If you want a fair system, you need transparancy.

[SB15]

Ferrari switching up maybe the best thing moving forward... but the fact that Mercedes actually "WANTED" the 60/40 split and the cars will have less downforce next year... man you just gotta wait until 2030 because Mercedes may have literally thought of everything in these regs.

[maxxer]

Doesnt everyone want a 75/25 give it all back to the ICE that is formula 1 not formula Tesla
Let them tune a Tesla and run as fast with an f1 car through cornders not just some boring straightline circuit.

[ChrisM40]

I’m sure the FIA is looking at a lot more than peak power…

I have a couple of sources on this and according to them, its just peak power. Its already well understood that the best option with these hybrids is to make a responsive efficient engine, so all the teams should be aiming for that. Peak power is just a consequence of how well you balance the demands you have for the engine, you probably should sacrifice absolute peak power for other characteristics. We are talking just a few HP here though, not 50. Its quite possible the RB engine being the most powerful is caused by their inexperience. They may have got the balance wrong and their engine has less drivability and less efficiency than the Merc.

Its very possible the merc engine has 10hp or so less than the RB engine, but a flatter torque curve. In that situation you superclip harder for less time because the engine has more power as it starts to drop revs. Didnt we already see this in testing?

Honda is widely reported to have a poor battery, but in reality its probably completely fine, its their terrible ICE that causes their issue. They could regen as much as anyone but they have so little ICE power they cant. If their ICE was the Merc ICE they would probably be as good as anyone.

[De Wet]

Interesting article from the race that suggests that Ferrari is now looking at doing a u turn on its opposition to the 60/40 proposal for 2027. They had assumed that Mercedes would be the benchmark and opposed the 27 change do that it could maximize its perceived ADUO advantage over them but with Mercedes now also qualifying for ADUO, they might conclude that their best move is to push for an all new engine for 27.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-s ... sequences/

There's hope...

[De Wet]

Interesting article from the race that suggests that Ferrari is now looking at doing a u turn on its opposition to the 60/40 proposal for 2027. They had assumed that Mercedes would be the benchmark and opposed the 27 change do that it could maximize its perceived ADUO advantage over them but with Mercedes now also qualifying for ADUO, they might conclude that their best move is to push for an all new engine for 27.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-s ... sequences/

It's so tiring watching self-interest destroy F1.

Get OEMS out of F1. With the cost cap F1 really doesn't need them.

[Sevach]

Interesting article from the race that suggests that Ferrari is now looking at doing a u turn on its opposition to the 60/40 proposal for 2027. They had assumed that Mercedes would be the benchmark and opposed the 27 change do that it could maximize its perceived ADUO advantage over them but with Mercedes now also qualifying for ADUO, they might conclude that their best move is to push for an all new engine for 27.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-s ... sequences/

It's so tiring watching self-interest destroy F1.

And Mercedes will change their stance to be against the new engines now, since they can keep their advantage.
Watching teams do these things makes me understand why Mosley was such a prick to them.

If you don't force them to comply they'll always act in self interest.