Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

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nanocustic
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by nanocustic » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:18 am

Works preferential treatment and integration, as well as a bit of retro mindset and hype I guess. That is what the name Honda brought to Mclaren at the time.
I don't think anyone here thought it was a bad idea, nor the executives.
And I think it was very ambitious, but the move made sense. Basically Mercedes ate most of the technical staff of the paddock, and Mclaren being a winning team wouldn't really settle for second place.

Didn't Honda said they underestimated the challenge though? (I'm sure I read that somewhere) Both Mclaren and Honda might have believed it was really possible.

Maybe I just don't buy that Honda were aware that it wasn't enough time to develop.
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Singabule
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by Singabule » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:45 am

It could be dangerous to your health and May reduce your body's performance, but F1 engineer is very stressful, lack of sleep (especially honda engineer), and high risk business and job, so Who care about health? The secret is in combustion chamber and software, so the engine manufacturer must endure the most of weight compared to chasis engineer. Their ICE is not a big Block chevy with 40's technology, it is an aerospace technology (honda is stretching their leg in aviation technology, so i still believe they can do it)

adrianjordan
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by adrianjordan » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:43 am

People keep bringing up the money that Honda is paying Mclaren as being a reason not to switch.

But Mclaren is owned by some incredibly wealthy individuals (at least or parr with RBR??) who have maybe agreed to plug that gap to see the team return to the top step sooner, rather than later.

Now personally I'd like to see Honda sort their problems and Mclaren Honda win together, but I don't think budget is that much of a factor if MO is the one who approached Merc...
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Manoah2u
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:54 am

adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:43 am
People keep bringing up the money that Honda is paying Mclaren as being a reason not to switch.

But Mclaren is owned by some incredibly wealthy individuals (at least or parr with RBR??) who have maybe agreed to plug that gap to see the team return to the top step sooner, rather than later.

Now personally I'd like to see Honda sort their problems and Mclaren Honda win together, but I don't think budget is that much of a factor if MO is the one who approached Merc...
i would rather then see those wealthy backers jump in right now and spend big money on the team, and let honda save their money that they put in the drivers for example, and use it to fix their engines and demand they start working on a test rig driving mule yesterday
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

toraabe
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by toraabe » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:10 am


Thunder
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by Thunder » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:18 am

Naah, don't think anything will happen during this Season. Changing Engines mid Season is sooo much lost development Time for the MCL32. They can just as well wait for Honda to bring their upgraded PU and decide calmly and professionally what Route to take for next Year.

Singabule
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by Singabule » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 pm

Is there Any change that Honda would supply another team this year? Sauber looks underpowered so much with Last year engine, any change to give them this year honda pu?

santos
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by santos » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:44 pm

Singabule wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 pm
Is there Any change that Honda would supply another team this year? Sauber looks underpowered so much with Last year engine, any change to give them this year honda pu?
By the way the things are going... i woulnd't be surprised that Sauber may score points, first then Mclaren. Even with an engine from last year.

Manoah2u
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:24 pm

in 2 months Honda will bring a totally new engine (again, lol).

I am sure this is what it will all revolve around for Mclaren's future with Honda right of now.

Mclaren no doubt will be looking for a solution in-season if the new Honda engine once again will be a tremendous failure. It would be the nail in the coffin.
It's Honda's last chance to make due and fix their lousy and shamefull efforts in their return to F1. A failure there would terminate Honda's participation in F1
with immediate effect, there would be no use to continue, and i don't think Honda will ever return to F1 ever again if that happens. I really really really hope
therefore that that won't happen but i'm afraid that the signs are there that we're up for another disappointment.

If Honda won't deliver in 2 months, that would surely mean Mclaren immediately pulls the plug on Honda and will undoubtedly immediately switch engine provider.

I have zero doubt in my mind that Mclaren is already preparing such a possibilty, and they will go back to Mercedes no doubt.
Why? Because they cannot afford to even finish the season with that Honda trashcan.
The decision is simple, really.

Make due and plaster on a Mercedes power unit that you will know will INSTANTLY catapult you to compete with Williams and Force India, and if the chassis is anything
to go by, possibly even beat them instantanous. Points matter. It won't bring you a WDC, but it will bring you points, lots of points, and lots of attention, Mclaren wont recieve
the hardship, Honda will be on the recieving end.
Keeping the Honda engine till the end of the season will guarantee no points and only DNF's.

It might also be the last option to keep Alonso aboard untill the end of the year, instead of seeing him part midseason and see JB step in.

A good question would be what will happen to Mercedes this year.
If they get profoundly beaten by Ferrari, and perhaps even by RedBull, that would undoubtedly have consequences for Mercedes' board decisions.

could they almost immediately pull the plug and sell the team? If so, that would open the possibility for lots of Mercedes staff to move to Mclaren,
and turn Mercedes in the 'works-like' engine supplier of Mclaren, and we might see Mclaren back at the front again.

anyway,
let's wait 2 months untill the new power unit.

if THAT one's another failure, then YES , Mclaren should return to Mercedes,
and i'm 100% sure they actually WILL do that with immediate effect.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

marvin78
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by marvin78 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:49 am

What McLaren cannot afford, is a Mercedes Motor. They need the money, they get from Honda.

Changing PU during season is a silly move. In every aspect.

toraabe
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by toraabe » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:22 pm

They also need to alter the gearbox ratio to suit the Mercedes engine lower rev.. Mostly a change on the final drive would be enough..

adrianjordan
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by adrianjordan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:15 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:49 am
What McLaren cannot afford, is a Mercedes Motor. They need the money, they get from Honda.

Changing PU during season is a silly move. In every aspect.
They do not NEED the Honda money if it isn't bringing success that in turn brings sponsors.

McLaren has very, very rich owners who can, I am certain, bankroll the team if it comes along with a return to the sharp end of the grid and, in turn, bring new sponsors...
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

DarkSurferZA
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by DarkSurferZA » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:30 pm

McLaren do not have bottomless pocket backing. Even if they are on par with RBR, RBR has sponsors, McLaren do not have that same level. Even if they did, Horner still asks his technical team how much a development path costs before they venture down that route.
McLaren have a car that could use some money actually. Even if we take away 2 second of lap time from the Honda PU, the McLaren is still 1.5 second off the Merc.
McLaren have also said that they couldn't win a WCC without works backing, so would you bankroll a car with top dollar only to see them move up from tenth to fourth?

McLaren desperately need to support Honda if they want to be successful. This position they are in may be Honda's fault, but a winning team, like a winning marriage only fights behind closed doors, and are super protective of each other in the public eye. Honda actually has good potential if they can iron out their technical issues. Fourth place seems really attainable this year.

Lastly, if McLaren allowed Honda to bring in RBR as a customer, they may have had more data, more skills, better PUs.

They are in this together, or they will lose out. Both of them. There is no quick fix.

Edit:one thing you can't take away from Honda, is that they picked up the F1 challenge when the other manufacturers said no, and they didn't just pitch up to put on a respectable performance, they went all in to put in a winning performance.

A few details different in the decision tree of the Honda history book and who knows, what if Honda nailed it?

I am not a Honda fan, but this Honda bashing is rediculous. McLaren weren't exactly the fastest car with Merc power back then either

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Stormy
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by Stormy » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:37 pm

McLaren is a very successful business outside of F1. So, when it comes to chassis, i think they are on par with Red Bull. However, they do need a premium engine partner. Returning to Mercedes means that they will depend on Mercedes as well because they can't be partners like they were. So, either way, McLaren has bad times ahead.

erikejw
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Re: Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

Post by erikejw » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:57 am

Stormy wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:37 pm
McLaren is a very successful business outside of F1. So, when it comes to chassis, i think they are on par with Red Bull. However, they do need a premium engine partner. Returning to Mercedes means that they will depend on Mercedes as well because they can't be partners like they were. So, either way, McLaren has bad times ahead.
If they were on par with the RB chassis they would not be 1.7 seconds off the qualy pace in Monaco last year. That is maximum a few tenths engine performance and the rest chassis.