How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

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godlameroso
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How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by godlameroso » Fri May 19, 2017 5:18 pm

Like the title states, how far away are we from having some crazy manufacturer decide to make a sleeved engine block made from a carbon composite?

http://blog.caranddriver.com/is-this-th ... ine-block/

Someone is trying, could this work it's way into F1?
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rgava
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by rgava » Fri May 19, 2017 8:16 pm

With current rules, it's forbidden.

If it were not forbidden, why not?

Only thing I find possibly problematic is the lower thermal conductivity wich could complicate the colling system design, creating hot spots difficult to cool.

Andres125sx
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by Andres125sx » Sat May 20, 2017 4:42 pm

Is that even possible?

How will they manage to make carbon fiber heat resistant to that point?

some special resin must be used for sure, but what?

godlameroso
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by godlameroso » Sun May 21, 2017 4:52 am

Carbon composites can take the heat, but are prone to cracking far more than aluminum, once we solve that there's no reason no to.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

DiogoBrand
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by DiogoBrand » Sun May 21, 2017 4:57 pm

Even if there were no fixed alloys for engines, minimum weight and road relevance wouldn't make it worth the effort.

BanMeToo
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by BanMeToo » Mon May 22, 2017 8:31 pm

How much weight would be saved?

etusch
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by etusch » Tue May 23, 2017 8:37 pm

Taking some parts from outside someone can make his own home made engine with carbon fibre then. Good idea. 8)

noname
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by noname » Wed May 24, 2017 1:56 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 4:42 pm
Is that even possible?

How will they manage to make carbon fiber heat resistant to that point?

some special resin must be used for sure, but what?
http://www.high-temperature-composites. ... rokarb.htm

Pat Pending
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by Pat Pending » Thu May 25, 2017 12:03 am

It's carbon fiber Jim, but not as we know it.

Not that it really matters but the material being used in that example is fiber reinforced resin, which is closer to good old GRP or fiberglass if you prefer. It's not woven carbon fiber held within a resin matrix, which is what most people tend to think of when you say carbon fiber.

It's still quite impressive though that we can now contemplate an essentially plastic engine block.

FightingHellPhish
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by FightingHellPhish » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:42 am

godlameroso wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 4:52 am
Carbon composites can take the heat, but are prone to cracking far more than aluminum, once we solve that there's no reason no to.
In reality, the heat affected zone would be quite small due to insulative properties. Heat effects on the resin isnt even the biggest prob;em My question would be how does one build an adequate the cylinder head deck, cooling system, and main web/journals? I dont think the tech is quite there yet. Though, the tech is getting there as shown by the forged carbon con rods... this pic is old but it gets the point across.
Image

humble sabot
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by humble sabot » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:29 am

Polimotor anyone? With sleeves almost the entire block can be replaced.
https://thekneeslider.com/plastic-engin ... nterested/
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There's a history of ceramic block efforts out there too. A lot of that work was halted by the limits of ceramic technologies at the time. The heat cycling would actually induce spalling of the cylinder walls, which means you start losing gas seal and then everything that goes with it.

Carbon, or "carbon" blocks are certainly not F1 relevant due to engine materials restrictions in the regulations, these days primarily as a cost cutting measure, those guys were starting to use a bunch of beryllium even. But there may be a window left for road relevance as lighter engines are always beneficial for fuel savings.
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roon
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Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?

Post by roon » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:46 pm

FightingHellPhish wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:42 am
godlameroso wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 4:52 am
Carbon composites can take the heat, but are prone to cracking far more than aluminum, once we solve that there's no reason no to.
In reality, the heat affected zone would be quite small due to insulative properties. Heat effects on the resin isnt even the biggest prob;em My question would be how does one build an adequate the cylinder head deck, cooling system, and main web/journals? I dont think the tech is quite there yet. Though, the tech is getting there as shown by the forged carbon con rods... this pic is old but it gets the point across.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content ... 26x382.jpg
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/naimo-co ... ting-rods/

The proprietary polymer that Naimo Composites has designed allows the carbon fiber to maintain stability up to 300 degrees Fahrenheit operating temperatures, according to Naimo. But he adds that means the glass transition temperature is much higher and it would take considerably more heat to compromise the component.

But what are the advantages to running a carbon fiber connecting rod? Well, first and foremost, there is weight. Any gearhead knows that taking weight out of the rotating assembly will allow it to come up to speed quicker, giving faster throttle response, freeing up horsepower and allowing higher RPM.

“Our connecting rods should be half of what a traditional alloy connecting rod weighs,” Naimo said. “We’re not ready to release the final numbers just yet, but obviously they are going to be substantially lighter than a conventional connecting rod.”