Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

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TAG
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by TAG » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:09 pm

I think the overall "theme" is simplicity, not just on the PU front, the less cost the more incentive for additional non manufacturer teams. Plus the possibilities for partnerships.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TAG
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by TAG » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:31 pm

DiogoBrand wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:15 pm
I seriously think that investing a new engine on Williams is a waste, but each to their point of view.
You may have gotten your point across. :)

I'm not fixated on a team, I think Porsche brings with them hosepower that could turn Sauber into a challenger if not an outright winner. The brand would bring with them not just the PU but a major investment and draw talent seeking career opportunities.

That said, the latest from the Porsche rumor mill.

Motorsportmagazine -The rumours are gathering apace: Porsche is to enter Formula 1 from 2021, after purchasing the Red Bull team and making engines fitting to the new formula set to be introduced that year.

No one is yet confirming or denying. But it makes a lot of sense. Red Bull might consider that its F1 programme of the last decade has achieved its marketing aims and that it no longer needs the vast expense of running an F1 team (or even two of them). It could continue as a sponsor to the works Porsche team and benefit from that association, but without anything like the same current spend.

The rumours have it that the team will continue to be run by Christian Horner from the same base as currently and hopefully still with the same Adrian Newey-led technical team. The team would simply change ownership and acquire proper works engine status from one of the world’s most prestigious automotive brands. Weissach and Milton Keynes would be connected in much the same way as Enstone and Viry currently are for Renault.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by adrianjordan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:37 am

TAG wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:31 pm
DiogoBrand wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:15 pm
I seriously think that investing a new engine on Williams is a waste, but each to their point of view.
You may have gotten your point across. :)

I'm not fixated on a team, I think Porsche brings with them hosepower that could turn Sauber into a challenger if not an outright winner. The brand would bring with them not just the PU but a major investment and draw talent seeking career opportunities.

That said, the latest from the Porsche rumor mill.

Motorsportmagazine -The rumours are gathering apace: Porsche is to enter Formula 1 from 2021, after purchasing the Red Bull team and making engines fitting to the new formula set to be introduced that year.

No one is yet confirming or denying. But it makes a lot of sense. Red Bull might consider that its F1 programme of the last decade has achieved its marketing aims and that it no longer needs the vast expense of running an F1 team (or even two of them). It could continue as a sponsor to the works Porsche team and benefit from that association, but without anything like the same current spend.

The rumours have it that the team will continue to be run by Christian Horner from the same base as currently and hopefully still with the same Adrian Newey-led technical team. The team would simply change ownership and acquire proper works engine status from one of the world’s most prestigious automotive brands. Weissach and Milton Keynes would be connected in much the same way as Enstone and Viry currently are for Renault.
I wonder what Honda think of this...
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Manoah2u
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:31 am

Honda and Aston Martin are first in line to do that compared to Porsche.

I can only see Porsche going to Williams OR actually taking Force India instead.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

LookBackTime
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by LookBackTime » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:36 am

It makes more sense for Porsche to be involved only as engine supplier (for them the money involved in this scenario is peanuts, they have the technology in place) and not to buy a F1 team (big headache if things are going sour).

And lets not forget: MARTINI - the common denominator!!

TAG
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by TAG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:31 pm

Let's not, not see the forest for the trees. The point is that this cycle is going to bring with it Porsche, or at least it's looking mighty certain that it will.

@adrianjordan Honda don't have much leverage at the moment and this is all about 2021 regulations. To believe they'll knock those out of the park without considering the situation they're in now? I think Porsche if they come in, would have the pick of the litter of any team that isn't Mercedes, Renault or Ferrari.

I'm in the Williams Porsche Martini camp, because.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by LookBackTime » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:37 pm

Renault to drop Red Bull?
by Mark Hughes on 14th September 2017

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opini ... ullRenault

related to this subject:

..."So the McLaren-Honda-Red Bull-Renault-Porsche stories seem have all merged into one. Porsche is reportedly now working flat out on single cylinder prototypes with a big team of engineers, even though the final format of the 2021 engines has not yet been confirmed. There is currently disagreement between the manufacturers about whether the new engines – set to continue as V6 1.6-litre turbos – will feature the current ERS-h technology. Mercedes wants to continue with it, others would prefer it deleted in order to simplify the technological challenge and contain costs (with the added benefit of increasing the sound volume)."...

TAG
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by TAG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:51 pm

Renault was reportedly supporting keeping the MGU-H along with Mercedes. With all the "noise" being made about the lack of noise and Liberty's demonstrated desire to run the sport in populist mode in order to increase it's value, I'd be surprised if they don't go back up to a V8.

Final spec to be a 2ish liter V8, Turbo with ERS and some type of electric turbo spooling.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by Maritimer » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Porsche definitely know how to make a compact hybrid drivetrain if the 919 is anything to judge them by. A small turbo V8 similar to the old CART engines would be a massive step in terms of sound if they're absolutely dead set on making them sing again.

Manoah2u
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:46 pm

just remove the fuel flow limit rule, and you'll get engines that go all the way up to super high RPM's, which will be a lot more vocal and interesting to hear.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

marmer
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by marmer » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:02 pm

Manoah2u wrote:just remove the fuel flow limit rule, and you'll get engines that go all the way up to super high RPM's, which will be a lot more vocal and interesting to hear.
Without significant developments the honda would vibrate itself into oblivion

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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by dodds_turbo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:02 pm

As mentioned in the Silly Season thread I also think Williams would make a likely way into F1 by Porsche. It would cost far more to set up their own new team. Also Posche have a successful partnership with Martini, as do Williams. Beyond Lance Stroll (and Paul Di Resta?) Williams don't have a young talent feeder team, once Porsche quit WEC they will have quite a few young(ish) drivers going spare and a perfect F1 mentor (Mark Webber) to coach them. I foresee a partial Porsche buy-out of the Williams F1 team bringing in technical and design people from Porsche so they have the best of both world. Porsche will develop their engine and hybrid drivetrain to comply with the 2021 regulations.

dodds_turbo wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:55 pm

Looking ahead I'd love to see the following teams form/merge/enter F1 with the new engine formula in 2021:

Porsche Williams Martini F1: Porsche+Martini and Williams+Martini are two good existing relationships, it'd be nice to see them partner up and Porsche enter F1. Drivers could range from any current Williams young talent (not Stroll please) or any of Porsche WEC youngsters.
Mercedes haven't seen much success in their supplied engines with Williams so shouldn't be too difficult to part ways.

BMW Sauber F1 - For nostalgia, but also a cheap way for BMW to enter F1 and buy stakes in a current team. BMW could look to their drivers in DTM, WTCC and shortly WEC for potential F1 drivers

McLaren-TAG Heuer F1 - again for nostalgia-sake it'd be nice to see McLaren have some good luck for a change and some success with the Renault engine (badged as TAG Heuer). It would take some convincing/miracle for TAG to part ways from RedBull (but this is the Silly Season Thread!)

RedBull AMR F1 - assuming Aston Martin want to take their F1 involvement further and enter the new engine formula I'd love to see what the combined RBR and AMR design team can produce (aero and livery).

Mercedes Force One F1 - previously Force India F1, after several years of success Mercedes buys a stake in the team and injects some money to attract some bigger names (drivers) to team F1F1. Remaining with Mercedes engines, this should provide a decent (but not too much of a) challenge for the works Mercedes Team).
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Stormy
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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by Stormy » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:25 am

I would love to see Williams teaming up with an exclusive engine partner with the likes of Porsche and fighting at the very front again. However, if i was Porsche i would probably team up with RB as they have a much more efficient base in Milton Keynes than Williams have in Grove. The staff groomed by Newey is more efficient as well.

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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by FW17 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:02 am

WIlliams had their chance this year to jump on the Honda deal, which would have allowed them to hire 2 proper drivers, update their facilities, creating a competitive chassis and hopefully a good engine in a couple of years, they missed it.

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Re: Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

Post by AMG.Tzan » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:17 pm

So it seems that Reb Bull won't partner with Porsche after all! Aston Martin may be their 2021 engine partner...!

https://www.facebook.com/skysportsf1/vi ... 794187811/

Although i would love to see the Porsche-Red Bull partnership coming true, i would not bother at all seeing Aston Martin-Red Bull and maybe Williams-Porsche! I would have also said Mclaren-Porsche but i think being competitors in the car industry won't help at all!