2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

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Gerhardsa
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by Gerhardsa » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:17 pm

Next season has nothing to do with this years title race, and this years title race/pressure has nothing to do with next years championship.
For all we know, Hamilton and Vettel wont even be in contention next season.

And Vettel wont have it easy winning the championship, even if he wins all the remaining races.
If Vettel wins all 4 races, Hamilton only has to come 5th x 3 times and 4th x 1 to be champion.
That's basically both Ferrari's and both RedBull ahead of him the rest of the races. I cant see that happening with places like Brazil, and Mexico still to come. And of course the Hamilton special COTA...

I'm afraid its all but over for Vettel unless Hamilton has major issues or incidents.

SiLo
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by SiLo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:32 pm

The good thing is, because we know Vettel is tenacious and definitely will not give up, we could be provided some great overtaking and races. Admittedly a close title battle would be more favourable, but as long as the racing is good I don't mind too much.
Felipe Baby!

JonoNic
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by JonoNic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:41 pm

Gerhardsa wrote:Next season has nothing to do with this years title race, and this years title race/pressure has nothing to do with next years championship.
For all we know, Hamilton and Vettel wont even be in contention next season.

And Vettel wont have it easy winning the championship, even if he wins all the remaining races.
If Vettel wins all 4 races, Hamilton only has to come 5th x 3 times and 4th x 1 to be champion.
That's basically both Ferrari's and both RedBull ahead of him the rest of the races. I cant see that happening with places like Brazil, and Mexico still to come. And of course the Hamilton special COTA...

I'm afraid its all but over for Vettel unless Hamilton has major issues or incidents.
What I'm trying to say is Vettel should forget about the championship and give it a good shot in the remaining races.





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TAG
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by TAG » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:49 pm

Fulcrum wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:40 am
Assuming no big issues with either Hamilton or Vettel, and they are 1 and 2 after the first lap, how hard will Lewis defend first place if he needs to?
Only one of the two drivers can afford not to score points in the remaining four races.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CBeck113
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by CBeck113 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:07 pm

JonoNic wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:41 pm
What I'm trying to say is Vettel should forget about the championship and give it a good shot in the remaining races.
Will never happen - he won't give up until he has lost the title, and yet will still fight for any possible win. What use is it to him or Ferrari to give up? His long game is now "win every race", and that means all-or-bust. I can see him taking risks trying to get past Lewis, who is also smart enough to know when to let him and when to fight (timing during race, positions, etc.). Seb's best chances (aka when Lewis will not fight) will be later in the race with no other competitors in the area (RB or Kimi), but then it won't do him much good either; he needs to pass early (or better stay in front of Lewis) and have Kimi and both RB between them. Lewis knows this too and will defend his position accordingly, so teh next couple of races, if Seb doesn't retire early, will be interesting.
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SiLo
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by SiLo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm

Vettel has to be aggressive, but can't afford it.

Lewis can be aggressive, and can afford it.

I think Lewis would defend very hard if Vettel was behind him.
Felipe Baby!

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:30 pm

Gerhardsa wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:17 pm

If Vettel wins all 4 races, Hamilton only has to come 5th x 3 times and 4th x 1 to be champion.
That's basically both Ferrari's and both RedBull ahead of him the rest of the races. I cant see that happening with places like Brazil, and Mexico still to come.
Also, bear in mind that should his team mate be ahead at any point, he will get out of the way. That place given back to Bottas in Hungary is in the bank for just such an eventuality.

Only a DNF for Hamilton gives Vettel any real hope.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:33 pm

SiLo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm
Vettel has to be aggressive, but can't afford it.

Lewis can be aggressive, and can afford it.

I think Lewis would defend very hard if Vettel was behind him.
I'm not so sure. If Hamilton and Vettel are up the road from everyone else, I doubt Hamilton would risk it. Take points for second place. Do that a couple of times and it's basically over. If there's a pack of five of them, then being at the front is definitely worth fighting for. However, the risk then is losing several places in one go if it goes wrong.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by foxmulder_ms » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:56 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:33 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm
Vettel has to be aggressive, but can't afford it.

Lewis can be aggressive, and can afford it.

I think Lewis would defend very hard if Vettel was behind him.
I'm not so sure. If Hamilton and Vettel are up the road from everyone else, I doubt Hamilton would risk it. Take points for second place. Do that a couple of times and it's basically over. If there's a pack of five of them, then being at the front is definitely worth fighting for. However, the risk then is losing several places in one go if it goes wrong.
No way! Hamilton will fight extremely hard. Both DNF means that the point difference stay the same. Vettel winning means point gap closes. Simple math really. ;)

F1NAC
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by F1NAC » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:38 pm

foxmulder_ms wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:56 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:33 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm
Vettel has to be aggressive, but can't afford it.

Lewis can be aggressive, and can afford it.

I think Lewis would defend very hard if Vettel was behind him.
I'm not so sure. If Hamilton and Vettel are up the road from everyone else, I doubt Hamilton would risk it. Take points for second place. Do that a couple of times and it's basically over. If there's a pack of five of them, then being at the front is definitely worth fighting for. However, the risk then is losing several places in one go if it goes wrong.
No way! Hamilton will fight extremely hard. Both DNF means that the point difference stay the same. Vettel winning means point gap closes. Simple math really. ;)
He will defend as hard as he was doing it against VES in Malaysia

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by foxmulder_ms » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:48 pm

F1NAC wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:38 pm
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:56 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:33 pm

I'm not so sure. If Hamilton and Vettel are up the road from everyone else, I doubt Hamilton would risk it. Take points for second place. Do that a couple of times and it's basically over. If there's a pack of five of them, then being at the front is definitely worth fighting for. However, the risk then is losing several places in one go if it goes wrong.
No way! Hamilton will fight extremely hard. Both DNF means that the point difference stay the same. Vettel winning means point gap closes. Simple math really. ;)
He will defend as hard as he was doing it against VES in Malaysia
Sure :) Those two are exactly the same situation.

Edax
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by Edax » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:11 am

SiLo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm
Vettel has to be aggressive, but can't afford it.

Lewis can be aggressive, and can afford it.

I think Lewis would defend very hard if Vettel was behind him.
I think there might be one more component to this equation. VES has been quite strong at this track. He was already fighting VET here in the Toro Rosso. I think he will be cautious towards Hamilton, but RB really would like to take some points off Ferrari.

Plus red cars tend to gravitate towards him. :D

Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by Restomaniac » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:37 am

Edax wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:11 am
SiLo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm
Vettel has to be aggressive, but can't afford it.

Lewis can be aggressive, and can afford it.

I think Lewis would defend very hard if Vettel was behind him.
I think there might be one more component to this equation. VES has been quite strong at this track. He was already fighting VET here in the Toro Rosso. I think he will be cautious towards Hamilton, but RB really would like to take some points off Ferrari.

Plus red cars tend to gravitate towards him. :D
Indeed.
I do get the feeling that Verstappen would much rather that Hamilton won. I think Vettel and Verstappen have had plenty of needle. We have had the whole issue of the fall out and public spat over Max being publicly dressed down over moving in the braking zone. Then we had Verstappen laughing 'I think he wants to play bumper cars or something', on another occasion 'Sebastian is crazy' followed shortly buy 'he crashed into Rosberg like an idiot'. Then of course there was the way Vettel tries chop Verstappen in Singapore. Hamilton on the other hand played the old hand in Malaysia and didn't stick his elbows out when he easily could have.

I also get the feeling from Horner that if Vettel can fail to win a WDC after walking out on Red Bull that would be swell too.As an example as much as Verstappen was being told to look after his tyres the comment 'as long as your sensible' for me had another meaning. That was also a don't get involved and take Hamilton off.

GPR-A
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by GPR-A » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:04 am

Restomaniac wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:37 am
Edax wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:11 am
SiLo wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:12 pm
Vettel has to be aggressive, but can't afford it.

Lewis can be aggressive, and can afford it.

I think Lewis would defend very hard if Vettel was behind him.
I think there might be one more component to this equation. VES has been quite strong at this track. He was already fighting VET here in the Toro Rosso. I think he will be cautious towards Hamilton, but RB really would like to take some points off Ferrari.

Plus red cars tend to gravitate towards him. :D
Indeed.
I do get the feeling that Verstappen would much rather that Hamilton won. I think Vettel and Verstappen have had plenty of needle. We have had the whole issue of the fall out and public spat over Max being publicly dressed down over moving in the braking zone. Then we had Verstappen laughing 'I think he wants to play bumper cars or something', on another occasion 'Sebastian is crazy' followed shortly buy 'he crashed into Rosberg like an idiot'. Then of course there was the way Vettel tries chop Verstappen in Singapore. Hamilton on the other hand played the old hand in Malaysia and didn't stick his elbows out when he easily could have.

I also get the feeling from Horner that if Vettel can fail to win a WDC after walking out on Red Bull that would be swell too.As an example as much as Verstappen was being told to look after his tyres the comment 'as long as your sensible' for me had another meaning. That was also a don't get involved and take Hamilton off.
Also, last year in Suzuka, while Hamilton was about to overtake Max and Max moved under breaking and Lewis had to go for run off area, Mercedes wanted to file a protest and Lewis asked them not to as he was OK with Max's move, despite losing out potential 3 points because of that. So, seems like Lewis and Red Bull drivers in general share a decent relationship, especially Max. So, true that Max's approach is different in terms of dealing on track with Lewis and Vettel. I wasn't expecting Max to ask his team, should he try overtaking Lewis in Suzuka. He generally goes for it.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

Post by Restomaniac » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:15 am

GPR-A wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:04 am
Restomaniac wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:37 am
Edax wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:11 am

I think there might be one more component to this equation. VES has been quite strong at this track. He was already fighting VET here in the Toro Rosso. I think he will be cautious towards Hamilton, but RB really would like to take some points off Ferrari.

Plus red cars tend to gravitate towards him. :D
Indeed.
I do get the feeling that Verstappen would much rather that Hamilton won. I think Vettel and Verstappen have had plenty of needle. We have had the whole issue of the fall out and public spat over Max being publicly dressed down over moving in the braking zone. Then we had Verstappen laughing 'I think he wants to play bumper cars or something', on another occasion 'Sebastian is crazy' followed shortly buy 'he crashed into Rosberg like an idiot'. Then of course there was the way Vettel tries chop Verstappen in Singapore. Hamilton on the other hand played the old hand in Malaysia and didn't stick his elbows out when he easily could have.

I also get the feeling from Horner that if Vettel can fail to win a WDC after walking out on Red Bull that would be swell too.As an example as much as Verstappen was being told to look after his tyres the comment 'as long as your sensible' for me had another meaning. That was also a don't get involved and take Hamilton off.
Also, last year in Suzuka, while Hamilton was about to overtake Max and Max moved under breaking and Lewis had to go for run off area, Mercedes wanted to file a protest and Lewis asked them not to as he was OK with Max's move, despite losing out potential 3 points because of that. So, seems like Lewis and Red Bull drivers in general share a decent relationship, especially Max. So, true that Max's approach is different in terms of dealing on track with Lewis and Vettel. I wasn't expecting Max to ask his team, should he try overtaking Lewis in Suzuka. He generally goes for it.
Always makes me chuckle when Hamilton calls Verstappen 'That guy' after Verstappen asked him if he actually knew his name. It's kind of become Hamilton's pet name for him :lol:

I think Hamilton sees a lot of himself in Verstappen and vice versa.

Oh and another thing, does the fact that Hamilton is now a senior and experienced F1 driver make anyone else feel old?