Kimi Raikkonen performance

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mertol
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by mertol » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:09 pm

If weight distribution adjustments are not restricted it's only a question of how underweight they can make the car. The lighter the car the bigger impact they can get on the balance. And lightening the car can take time but that's what the winter is for.

turbof1
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:18 pm

mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:09 pm
If weight distribution adjustments are not restricted it's only a question of how underweight they can make the car. The lighter the car the bigger impact they can get on the balance. And lightening the car can take time but that's what the winter is for.
That's an easy answer: very difficult. We are speaking of by nature very heavy cars with even a top team like Mercedes struggling to bring the weight down. And next year the engine will have to reinforced as it has to do more mileage, with the halo added as well. I don't think the increased minimum weight will make up for that. I believe it took Mercedes up to Barcelona to get below the minimum weight this year. So even winter might not be enough to get it done!

Eventually they will be able to get back under the minimum weight and be able to use ballast, but it will be rather limited.

mertol
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by mertol » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:22 pm

Kimi also raced cars with plenty of ballast but didn't show any different results... I believe this year Ferrari is plenty underweight too.

everythingisawesome
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by everythingisawesome » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:30 pm

Hello,

My two cents here - the weight argument is difficult. Teams have a different approach to each other. Weight is a very difficult thing to manage when 20-30 thousand parts are being designed at the same time.
What 'normally' happens is, everyone is pushing for the weight to be as low as possible during the winter. This 'normally' results in a car which is underweight. (hang on to that thought)

Teams use ballast in different parts of the car to balance the car between front and rear. The ballast available to use is ideally, how much the car is underweight by!

'Heavy cars' don't have this luxury, and lock themselves into performance trade-offs with weight and balance, when the car has poor balance (so over/understeer).

Hope that made sense, I've probably repeated some of your points!

turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:18 pm
mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:09 pm
If weight distribution adjustments are not restricted it's only a question of how underweight they can make the car. The lighter the car the bigger impact they can get on the balance. And lightening the car can take time but that's what the winter is for.
That's an easy answer: very difficult. We are speaking of by nature very heavy cars with even a top team like Mercedes struggling to bring the weight down. And next year the engine will have to reinforced as it has to do more mileage, with the halo added as well. I don't think the increased minimum weight will make up for that. I believe it took Mercedes up to Barcelona to get below the minimum weight this year. So even winter might not be enough to get it done!

Eventually they will be able to get back under the minimum weight and be able to use ballast, but it will be rather limited.

turbof1
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:32 pm

mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:22 pm
Kimi also raced cars with plenty of ballast but didn't show any different results... I believe this year Ferrari is plenty underweight too.
The point got stuck for a moment on weight and weight distribution, but the main point I was making was that fundamental things, in general, aren't as easily erased. I don't know whether Raikkonen is being plagued by a fundamental choice of the car or not, I'm merely raising it. It could just as well be that the Ferrari suits Raikkonen better and isn't suited for Vettel, but Vettel still outperforming Raikkonen. This is a good "you know nothing, Jon Snow!"-moment :D .

everythingisawesome
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by everythingisawesome » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:35 pm

To stay on topic - Raikkonen is a reliable pair of hands now for Ferrari, he will remain just like Massa, Barrichello...
They are looking for reliable performance with minimal impact on Vettel. It wouldn't be wrong to accuse them of working as team for a common goal!

everythingisawesome
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by everythingisawesome » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:43 pm

'It is known' (another GOT reference for you)
That Kimi has always had a very particular setup that he drives well with. If it's not there, he does not perform to the level we are used to seeing.
For example - Lotus in 2012(i think) did a long wheelbase mid season which worked amazingly for Romain. Kimi hated it and slumped for a while.
Same in this case - who do you think gets to make fundamental changes to the car at Ferrari during the winter? :) Kimi just has to make with what he's got, which wasn't the case when he won his championship - or at Lotus.

turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:32 pm
mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:22 pm
Kimi also raced cars with plenty of ballast but didn't show any different results... I believe this year Ferrari is plenty underweight too.
The point got stuck for a moment on weight and weight distribution, but the main point I was making was that fundamental things, in general, aren't as easily erased. I don't know whether Raikkonen is being plagued by a fundamental choice of the car or not, I'm merely raising it. It could just as well be that the Ferrari suits Raikkonen better and isn't suited for Vettel, but Vettel still outperforming Raikkonen. This is a good "you know nothing, Jon Snow!"-moment :D .

turbof1
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:48 pm

everythingisawesome wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:43 pm
'It is known' (another GOT reference for you)
That Kimi has always had a very particular setup that he drives well with. If it's not there, he does not perform to the level we are used to seeing.
For example - Lotus in 2012(i think) did a long wheelbase mid season which worked amazingly for Romain. Kimi hated it and slumped for a while.
Same in this case - who do you think gets to make fundamental changes to the car at Ferrari during the winter? :) Kimi just has to make with what he's got, which wasn't the case when he won his championship - or at Lotus.

turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:32 pm
mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:22 pm
Kimi also raced cars with plenty of ballast but didn't show any different results... I believe this year Ferrari is plenty underweight too.
The point got stuck for a moment on weight and weight distribution, but the main point I was making was that fundamental things, in general, aren't as easily erased. I don't know whether Raikkonen is being plagued by a fundamental choice of the car or not, I'm merely raising it. It could just as well be that the Ferrari suits Raikkonen better and isn't suited for Vettel, but Vettel still outperforming Raikkonen. This is a good "you know nothing, Jon Snow!"-moment :D .
That's a nice point. I figure they didn't do this for the 2015 car, but especially the 2017 car should have been developed more with Vettel in mind. We'll see if that trend continues next year, for now: Winter is coming :D .

mertol
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by mertol » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:49 pm

So he won the championship, allegedly had the car made for him and still didn't outperform Massa? Where exactly do you get this stuff about cars not suiting him? There is no evidence for it.

everythingisawesome
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by everythingisawesome » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:11 pm

mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:49 pm
So he won the championship, allegedly had the car made for him and still didn't outperform Massa? Where exactly do you get this stuff about cars not suiting him? There is no evidence for it.
He's said it in interviews before..here you go:
https://kimiraikkonenspace.com/2014/03/ ... nt-fit-me/

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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by mertol » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:18 pm

Ofcourse what do you expect him to say "I suck"?

turbof1
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:17 pm

mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:18 pm
Ofcourse what do you expect him to say "I suck"?
I don't expect him to say much at all really :P.

everythingisawesome
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by everythingisawesome » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:47 am

mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:18 pm
Ofcourse what do you expect him to say "I suck"?
I'm just providing the evidence - he definitely does not suck.

mertol
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by mertol » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:07 am

The evidence is that no car ever suited Kimi (if cars suiting drivers is even a thing, this is still not proven) either that or he sucks.
Last edited by mertol on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

3jawchuck
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Re: Kimi Raikkonen performance

Post by 3jawchuck » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:30 am

everythingisawesome wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:47 am
mertol wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:18 pm
Ofcourse what do you expect him to say "I suck"?
I'm just providing the evidence - he definitely does not suck.
Him saying something isn't evidence.

That being said, he's one among the elite drivers in the world, he certainly doesn't suck in the general sense. However, compared to his peers, he's not really got anything special.