2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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CBeck113
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

Post by CBeck113 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:24 am

Come on people, does everyone need to be offended by every second sentence? That stance kind of kills the idea of a forum, where everyone should be able to speak their opinion, and then get support or critic for it. And let's be honest about the thinking before speaking or acting part: Sebastian Vettel maybe? A general statement about a culture doesn't mean that everyone meets those criteria, but a large percentage. So have a little more backbone for yourself if you don't believe that you share said trait, and bring constructive criticism instead. I've been watching the intellectual level drop in this forum, but since I haven't found a better forum, I'll do what I can to help this one.
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

outsid3r
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

Post by outsid3r » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:26 pm

CBeck113 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:24 am
Come on people, does everyone need to be offended by every second sentence? That stance kind of kills the idea of a forum, where everyone should be able to speak their opinion, and then get support or critic for it. And let's be honest about the thinking before speaking or acting part: Sebastian Vettel maybe? A general statement about a culture doesn't mean that everyone meets those criteria, but a large percentage. So have a little more backbone for yourself if you don't believe that you share said trait, and bring constructive criticism instead. I've been watching the intellectual level drop in this forum, but since I haven't found a better forum, I'll do what I can to help this one.
Well said! I am Maltese, probably the southern most part of Europe and very similar to Italians culture-wise. I actually agree that sometimes we are too blinded by passion and emotion, and that we speak before we think, but that it what differs us southern Europeans. And the fact that sometimes even Vettel is showing these attributes may not always be a quality to cheer about but certainly indicates that he is at one with the team and that he is adapting well.

CBeck113
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

Post by CBeck113 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:51 pm

outsid3r wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:26 pm
CBeck113 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:24 am
Come on people, does everyone need to be offended by every second sentence? That stance kind of kills the idea of a forum, where everyone should be able to speak their opinion, and then get support or critic for it. And let's be honest about the thinking before speaking or acting part: Sebastian Vettel maybe? A general statement about a culture doesn't mean that everyone meets those criteria, but a large percentage. So have a little more backbone for yourself if you don't believe that you share said trait, and bring constructive criticism instead. I've been watching the intellectual level drop in this forum, but since I haven't found a better forum, I'll do what I can to help this one.
Well said! I am Maltese, probably the southern most part of Europe and very similar to Italians culture-wise. I actually agree that sometimes we are too blinded by passion and emotion, and that we speak before we think, but that it what differs us southern Europeans. And the fact that sometimes even Vettel is showing these attributes may not always be a quality to cheer about but certainly indicates that he is at one with the team and that he is adapting well.
Thanks:-) I am an American who's been living in Germany for over 25 years, and I do carry traits from both cultures, while also adapting and changing in the process. I can't understand being offended when someone speaks before they think, they tend to be more honest and show their true fears in a situation (not a bad thing!), my German wife is the perfect example of this. She's typically German in her will to exceed in what she does (try something she's baked or cooked and you'll understand), but also carries her heart on her tongue and reacts before thinking about the consequences of her actions...sounds alot like Vettel actually :D . It is easy to see when I've overstepped her limits, which has certainly helped maintain our 24 year marriage. On a second personal note, I love the Italian mentality - it's a great counterbalance to my engineering and statistical backround, and helps keep me social.

So, back on topic - the emotional response embedded in the Italian culture should be seen as a blessing, even if it can block a common sense approach in certain situations, it offers endless drive for success, especially when channeled correctly. Ferrari is in a position to do so, for the first time in a long time with primarily Italian management, and I certainly hope they can do it in 2018.
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

f1316
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

Post by f1316 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:41 pm

CBeck113 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:24 am
Come on people, does everyone need to be offended by every second sentence? That stance kind of kills the idea of a forum, where everyone should be able to speak their opinion, and then get support or critic for it. And let's be honest about the thinking before speaking or acting part: Sebastian Vettel maybe? A general statement about a culture doesn't mean that everyone meets those criteria, but a large percentage. So have a little more backbone for yourself if you don't believe that you share said trait, and bring constructive criticism instead. I've been watching the intellectual level drop in this forum, but since I haven't found a better forum, I'll do what I can to help this one.
I don’t share that view - rather I think sweeping statements about culture/race/nationality are the types of things that can kill forums - we need to be more accurate and informed in the types of points we’re making.

That said, an apology was made and I totally accept and understand that no offence was meant.

(For the record, I’m English, just think we should apply the same level of accuracy and intelligence to these kinds of things as we do to technical discussion. Your point about Vettel being as reactionary as anyone is a good illustration as to why stereotypes are of no real value in discussion).

Schuttelberg
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

Post by Schuttelberg » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:02 pm

santos wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:11 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:14 am
f1316 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:04 am


Sorry but can we please avoid these national stereotypes? It comes up a lot on this forum and in F1 in general and not only has the potential to cause offence but is also largely inaccurate.

There’s no evidence that Italians don’t think before speaking and, is increasingly evident in Ferrari (but frankly has always been the case) the stereotype of disorganised, passionate but emotionally uncontrolled people is simply not correct.
I don't mean to hurt anyone's sentiments or cause distress. Sorry if you got offended by it.
I'm sorry, but i could not let this pass...
So it's the Italians are the ones who speak before they think??? I'm from Portugal, and people from the south of Europe are a bit tired of receveing comments like this...
I already said Sorry. No need to make a big drama about it. It was not my intention to label all Italians in that manner. I repeat that if I hurt anyone I'm sorry.
"The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is stimulated by passion and internal will."
Sebastian Vettel

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

Post by Vasconia » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:57 pm

Stereotypes are only stereotypes, which usually means that there is certain amount of people who are like this, and a greater percentage who are not like this. People tend to say, lets give an example, that people in South Spain are calmer, less serious, more passionate and chaotic, and sometimes lazy. There is indeed more people who don´t meet those chraracteristics. But a good friend of mine, who is from Andalusia, says that there is a greater percentage of peple who meet those steorotypes than in northern areas of the country.

Anyway, in the end there are people who meet certain sterotypes in very place of the world. The only important thing is not to judge a certain person(for example people in Ferrari) without knowing them or at least not having enough facts to judge their behaviour or work.

aral
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

Post by aral » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:48 pm

Again this thread has descended into discussions about who and what is a "hater" . The topic is about the Ferrari team, so lets keep discussion on track. Some off topic posts have been removed.