2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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GhostF1
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by GhostF1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:38 pm

diffuser wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:24 am
Singabule wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:45 am
Removing shark fin is a political move, as their car is still empty from sponsor. Imagine FI unable to find more space in their car, and MCL would say 'hey, our car still empty, why not promote ur brand in our car instead, only for 10% higher price'
Agreed.
Definite sponsor drive there, but I'd say there is a little bit of tactical gain there as well... They've likely developed the MCL33 without the big sail and waited until the final vote was required (which by the way, needed a unanimous decision to continue for 2018) and then voted no, that screws the other teams who have been developing it.
There has been a couple teams who are not happy about the late decision and that is likely because of sponsor issues but also aero development will now have to restart in this area. It has been known that McLaren do not like the sail, now that could be for sponsor reasons, but there has also been comment that it affects the airflow onto the rear wing at all other angles except straight on... so.

Either way, we'd be silly to assume a company in the middle of a competition, trying to claw back to the top end of the field, have not thought about this possible advantage in saying no this late.

NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by NathanOlder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:14 am

Good to see Lando getting a run out in an F2 car in Abu Dhabi. Will probably be towards the back as its a new car and new track up against the season regulars. But will certainly help him be a little better prepared for next year.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

mclaren111
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:00 am

GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:38 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:24 am
Singabule wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:45 am
Removing shark fin is a political move, as their car is still empty from sponsor. Imagine FI unable to find more space in their car, and MCL would say 'hey, our car still empty, why not promote ur brand in our car instead, only for 10% higher price'
Agreed.
Definite sponsor drive there, but I'd say there is a little bit of tactical gain there as well... They've likely developed the MCL33 without the big sail and waited until the final vote was required (which by the way, needed a unanimous decision to continue for 2018) and then voted no, that screws the other teams who have been developing it.
There has been a couple teams who are not happy about the late decision and that is likely because of sponsor issues but also aero development will now have to restart in this area. It has been known that McLaren do not like the sail, now that could be for sponsor reasons, but there has also been comment that it affects the airflow onto the rear wing at all other angles except straight on... so.

Either way, we'd be silly to assume a company in the middle of a competition, trying to claw back to the top end of the field, have not thought about this possible advantage in saying no this late.
I really hope they stick to their guns !!!

I HATE the shark fin

marvin78
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by marvin78 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:19 am

And I like it. And now?

Thunder
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Thunder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:24 am

marvin78 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:19 am
And I like it. And now?
Now you have one Race and the Post Season Test to slowly say goodbye to it.

mclaren111
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:34 am

marvin78 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:19 am
And I like it. And now?
"Each to his own" as the saying goes :D :D

I hope I win this one [-o< :wink: [-o< :wink:

marvin78
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by marvin78 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:51 am

Thunder wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:24 am
marvin78 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:19 am
And I like it. And now?
Now you have one Race and the Post Season Test to slowly say goodbye to it.
I wanted to say that you don't always get, what you wish for and in F1 case it would be really bad for the sport if everything the so called "fan" wishes is the way it goes. We have had that far too much by now. And that is not directly related to shark fins.

mclaren111
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:02 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:51 am
Thunder wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:24 am
marvin78 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:19 am
And I like it. And now?
Now you have one Race and the Post Season Test to slowly say goodbye to it.
I wanted to say that you don't always get, what you wish for and in F1 case it would be really bad for the sport if everything the so called "fan" wishes is the way it goes. We have had that far too much by now. And that is not directly related to shark fins.

Agreed. I have been watching/following F1 for over 35 years now. You can imagine what I've seen and experienced over the years !!! :D :o :D

HPD
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by HPD » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:52 pm

:!: :!: :!: :idea:
After finishing the technical briefing after the Brazilian GP qualifying, Fernando Alonso said after removing the intercom for the conversation between the staff.

"Is not this a downforce too much? It can not come out at tomorrow's race, is not it tough enough?"

McLaren tried set-up that lightly reduced downforce on Friday. At that time, the fastest speed of Alonso was 325.8 km / h, and Stelle Bandoon extended to 327.3 km / h.

In light of the highest speed of qualifying, it is the speed which is the 8th overall. In other words, even a powerless Honda Power Unit proved that the fastest speed would be available depending on the setup.

However, the MCL 32 could not ensure satisfactory behavior at that downforce amount. As a result, on Saturday the corner was steady fast as usual, but the corner was steady and fast, but the fastest was down about 10 km / h, with Alonso at 316.2 km / h and Bando at 315.5 km / h respectively .

Matt Morris: "Because the balance between straight speed and in-field is a very important and difficult circuit here, we explored that balance.
Of course, I want the fastest speed when considering the competitiveness in the final. However, if you cut downforce, you can not run sector 2 fast.
As a result, it turned out that setting downforce for Saturday was the best compromise for us. "


However, it explains that it is not a characteristic of the car body, but because it is setting a wing to draw speed.

Matt Morris: "That's because we are setting downforce.
It might seem like they are saying strange things, but if you have more power you can cut downforce and set up a direction to earn straight.
However, we can not earn straight even if we break downforce.
On the other hand, it will also be lost in the corner.
So, because there is no power, there is no choice but to go downforth and earn it in the corner. "


However, some engineer at Honda refutes to it.

McLaren is aiming not "the machine that can deliver the fastest time," but the driver is "a machine that is easy to run".

"I think it is not the fastest compromise.
Even Mercedes AMG and Ferraris were spinning and off tracking this time, were not you? Still McLaren is busy, I do not off course.


When it shaved downforce on Friday, Stelle spun at turn 2, "It is not possible to run after all" situation. Even the top team attacks the downforce as much as it is cutting downforce, McLaren has firmly put downforce, making a car that makes it easy for the driver to run.

McLaren is traditionally a team of such engineering policy.
Absolutely to complain about the driver, because it is their policy to deal with it.
As a result, although it is hard to run, it is not a fast machine, and the driver will be finished in a machine that is easy to run.
"This setting is faster, so afterwards you are going to run hard and run" It is a team that can not tell the driver. "

That was why Alonso told the opening story at the briefing after qualifying.

I did not bother to talk to the engineer by removing the intercom because it was not asked by the factory and no recording was done either. Alonso himself recognized that it was "inconvenient truth".

In fact, discussions have been discussed with McLaren and Honda about the direction of this setup.
Rather than discussion, it is close to claims from Honda side.

Honda Yusuke Hasegawa F1 general manager says,
"Of course we discussed, many times.
I've talked about 'Let's make it a lighter downforce' many times, but still quite ......
As the team gives priority to the faster lap time, the downforce also affects the stability of the car, so it will not spin absolutely even in places where Hamilton will spin it (bitter smile) .
Not to criticize the team but to say that it is such a directional setting, since it is a way of thinking in the way ahead, so if you capture the pole position then there is no problem ... (bitter smile) "


https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... ndex_4.php

kptaylor
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by kptaylor » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:34 pm

So what does that really mean or reveal? Honda wanted less downforce so their speed trap times wouldn't look bad and McLaren wanted the downforce that gave the best overall lap time? These Google translations strip away much of the nuance of the replies given...

Hammerfist
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Hammerfist » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:23 pm

kptaylor wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:34 pm
So what does that really mean or reveal? Honda wanted less downforce so their speed trap times wouldn't look bad and McLaren wanted the downforce that gave the best overall lap time? These Google translations strip away much of the nuance of the replies given...
To me it is a case of a chassis lacking overall downforce coupled to a power unit lacking overall power. I have suspected this a long time, because whenever they have to compromise like this, for so little reward, it's likely because both of the parts of the sum aren't great.

Redbull on the other hand, seems to be able to run so little wing and still be fast in the corners, and that has been the case since the v8 era. I still think Mclaren is facing a rude awakening next year.

bigblue
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by bigblue » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 pm

Hard to know with that auto-translation. Maybe Honda felt that the straightline speed would be more beneficial in the race, rather than just to 'appear better'. Matt Morris's quote seems to suggest that taking downforce off wouldn't result in enough straightline speed gain, given the power they have, to make it worthwhile. But it's all mangled in the translation, so hard to say.

HPD
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by HPD » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:46 pm

I know, the translation is very complicated, there is not much to do. I am sorry

dren
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by dren » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:04 pm

To me, it sounded like Mclaren went for a set-up towards car stability for the drivers instead of outright speed like the Honda engineers were saying. They also said it appeared that other teams went the outright speed direction since other drivers like Hamilton were spinning the car.
Honda!

Alonso Fan
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post by Alonso Fan » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:50 pm

bigblue wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 pm
Hard to know with that auto-translation. Maybe Honda felt that the straightline speed would be more beneficial in the race, rather than just to 'appear better'. Matt Morris's quote seems to suggest that taking downforce off wouldn't result in enough straightline speed gain, given the power they have, to make it worthwhile. But it's all mangled in the translation, so hard to say.
This is what I picked up too
MVRC - SHM Racing