2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Post Reply
User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

Rough textures act like micro vortex generators, reducing skin drag by limiting the boundary layer on the solid surface.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
diffuser
207
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

The other thing I was wondering is on these high rake cars the drag will vary. It must change as it squats at higher speeds ? The whole angle of attack of the rear wing. monkey seat and T wing will decrease by +2 degrees.

stevesingo
42
Joined: 07 Sep 2014, 00:28

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

Yeah but, but, but... it has more drag, can't you see. Wing thickness don't you know...

User avatar
diffuser
207
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

My point is there should be 3 numbers
  • Pre Squat
  • Post Squat
  • DRS activated
BTW, I do understand that the rear springs are adjusted to the track. The speed that they start to squat will vary from track to track.

User avatar
Alonso Fan
10
Joined: 06 Apr 2013, 18:21

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

stevesingo wrote:
19 Nov 2017, 16:36
Yeah but, but, but... it has more drag, can't you see. Wing thickness don't you know...
Made me chuckle... :)
SHR Modding
Youtube
Twitter
Discord

Sound Developer for Reiza Studios
Sound Modder for Assetto Corsa

User avatar
Alonso Fan
10
Joined: 06 Apr 2013, 18:21

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

diffuser wrote:
19 Nov 2017, 17:41
My point is there should be 3 numbers
  • Pre Squat
  • Post Squat
  • DRS activated
BTW, I do understand that the rear springs are adjusted to the track. The speed that they start to squat will vary from track to track.
I think we should put this to rest. Unless we work in a team's aero department there is no way any of us will know such things. Before 2014 we used to talk about car performance as a whole. Now it's chassis vs engine. How many more factors for debate are we going to add?
SHR Modding
Youtube
Twitter
Discord

Sound Developer for Reiza Studios
Sound Modder for Assetto Corsa

stevesingo
42
Joined: 07 Sep 2014, 00:28

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

At maximum speed on any track, the suspension will be fully compressed, so amongst the teams, comparing rake as an indicator of drag at top speed is largely irrelevant.

User avatar
diffuser
207
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

stevesingo wrote:
19 Nov 2017, 21:38
At maximum speed on any track, the suspension will be fully compressed, so amongst the teams, comparing rake as an indicator of drag at top speed is largely irrelevant.
What's telling you the drag measurement is taken at full squat? Merc doesn't squat at all.

stevesingo
42
Joined: 07 Sep 2014, 00:28

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

Nothing. What is the measurement anyway, anything in the public domain is unverifiable. All we know is top speed, and that at top speed the cars which run high rake tend to squat to negate the drag disadvantage.

Do you have evidence of the Merc not squatting at all?

User avatar
diffuser
207
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

stevesingo wrote:
19 Nov 2017, 22:40
Nothing. What is the measurement anyway, anything in the public domain is unverifiable. All we know is top speed, and that at top speed the cars which run high rake tend to squat to negate the drag disadvantage.

Do you have evidence of the Merc not squatting at all?
Well just the small amount of rake they run. They're also known for running a very stiff suspension.

marmer
1
Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

Rake would also work well with a stiff rear so it stays up and stable for the aero. Unless having a soft rear is so much better for mechanical grip.


User avatar
diffuser
207
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

marmer wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 15:47
Rake would also work well with a stiff rear so it stays up and stable for the aero. Unless having a soft rear is so much better for mechanical grip.

Wrong....

High Rake, you adjust the rear springs of the car to squat at a speed that is slightly higher that the highest speed corner.

You want it to squat on anything over that,hence, reducing down force, drag, increasing top speed and acceleration.

Actually McLaren Run the most Rake, +2 Degrees and .5 degree more than RBR. You really don't want to do that cause you loose Mechanical grip but McLaren are over compensating for lack of power.

User avatar
dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

Aren't you requiring that down force you are losing at speed to squat the car in the first place?
Honda!

User avatar
diffuser
207
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

1st off ...It was a RBR Idea. I presume PP and Newey were involved.

Lets just take a fictitious number 10. Lets say your fastest hi speed corner is 200KPH. At 205 KPH the car starts to generate 10 as you accelerate you'll generate > 10 but the car will start to squat and reduce the amount of DF the rear of the car generates. So again fictitious numbers lets say at 250KPH the rear of the car would normally generating 15 but because of the squat it's still generating 11 (or something like that). Since the Front wing is in front of the front wheels, lowering the back raises the front wing which will also reduce DF/Drag. The angle of attack of the splitter also is lowered, again decreasing DF/drag.


Here is a great shot I took from the Mclaren MCL32 honda forum that shows what rake does to the front wing. Compare the Merc to the Mclaren.


Image

marmer
1
Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

Post

diffuser wrote:1st off ...It was a RBR Idea. I presume PP and Newey were involved.

Lets just take a fictitious number 10. Lets say your fastest hi speed corner is 200KPH. At 205 KPH the car starts to generate 10 as you accelerate you'll generate > 10 but the car will start to squat and reduce the amount of DF the rear of the car generates. So again fictitious numbers lets say at 250KPH the rear of the car would normally generating 15 but because of the squat it's still generating 11 (or something like that). Since the Front wing is in front of the front wheels, lowering the back raises the front wing which will also reduce DF/Drag. The angle of attack of the splitter also is lowered, again decreasing DF/drag.


Here is a great shot I took from the Mclaren MCL32 honda forum that shows what rake does to the front wing. Compare the Merc to the Mclaren.


Image
Any rake the Merc could have will be affected in that shot by the drs so it's not quite a fare comparison

Post Reply