McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

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dren
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by dren » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:59 pm

If your ICE thermal efficiency is higher, and producing more power, you wouldn't be wasting as much heat to the radiators. Makes sense. Plus, who knows, EB may be talking about the charge coolers for all we know.
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GhostF1
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by GhostF1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:28 pm

The only current facts we know are EB saying the radiators are smaller for the Renault. But Toro Rosso are saying they were pleasantly surprised at the Honda PU dimensions, and it's much smaller than the Renault... Notice EB didn't rave about anything else on the Renault PU except for just radiators.. It'll have a higher CoG, probably heavier, it will have a larger air intake increasing drag etc. The car will have to have changes made to counter these things.

Also, because Ferrari and Renault share pretty much the same layout, which are externally bigger than Honda and Merc and with Merc increasing weight this year, it probably isn't far from the truth to assume Honda has the lightest and most compact PU of the field. Yes I'm aware it has been breaking down, but we know this is just MGU-H bearing related...there have been almost no issues with the physical ICE, so clearly this weight saving hasn't been an issue. If they rectify the MGU-H with a new Honda unit (not externally supplied) which Wazari had implied, then there could be an advantage to be found..

michl420
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by michl420 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:04 pm

The 2017 Honda engine has the compressor AND all the air pipes in front of it. In this area, the Renault looks better.

RedNEO
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by RedNEO » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Looking forward to seeing the 2018 Renault engine which is much more in line with our chassis performance and how well they can intergrate it into the chassis. So far we know Renault requires smaller radiators which will also help with drag/aero.

roon
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by roon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 pm

michl420 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:04 pm
The 2017 Honda engine has the compressor AND all the air pipes in front of it. In this area, the Renault looks better.
In what sense?

michl420
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by michl420 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:11 pm

roon wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 pm
michl420 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:04 pm
The 2017 Honda engine has the compressor AND all the air pipes in front of it. In this area, the Renault looks better.
In what sense?
The ICE can be installed more forward. I know, compressor at the back, but still, Center of gravity and the large ICE moves a bit Forward, which is good. I could be wrong, but that's my view

godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by godlameroso » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:35 pm

Wouldn't a split turbo be more compact? Putting the turbo in the back makes for a longer engine. The turbo can easily weigh 30kg. The benefit of rear mounted turbo is that you can mount the turbo as low as possible. So do you want max lowering of roll center(Renault/Ferrari), or max COG advantage(Mercedes/Honda)?

Roll center leverage, in relation to COG is another interesting topic.
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NathanOlder
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:26 pm

a Turbo will weigh 30KG!! Wow, really that heavy! ?
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diffuser
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by diffuser » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 am

Maybe with the MGU-h. Remember, the Mgu-H, turbo and compressor must all be on the same axis.

godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by godlameroso » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:34 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:26 pm
a Turbo will weigh 30KG!! Wow, really that heavy! ?
The size of the turbo they're using, if they were using standard materials, it would easily weigh that much, plus 8kg for the MGU-H, so probably ~20kg for the compressor and turbine assembly. These are a fair bit bigger than the turbos in most road cars, in fact bigger than most tuned road cars.

I'd say F1 turbos are sized around this big.
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OPOhan
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by OPOhan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:43 pm

First sneak peak of MCL33
https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/940575288190173185
Image

Edit Thunder: Added Source

wuzak
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by wuzak » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:38 pm

  • The minimum weight is 145kg - so if the Honda is the lightest, I doubt it is by much.
  • The CoG of the engine is specified as minimum 200mm above the reference plane.
  • The mounting points for the engine to the chassis and gearbox are defined in the rules. The gearbox and chassis mounting planes are 480mm apart.
So I am doubting there is much advantage.

You can see that the Mercedes mounting points are already above the valve covers. Not sure much is to be gained by making the actual engine smaller.

wuzak
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by wuzak » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:44 pm

GhostF1 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:28 pm
Also, because Ferrari and Renault share pretty much the same layout, which are externally bigger than Honda and Merc and with Merc increasing weight this year, it probably isn't far from the truth to assume Honda has the lightest and most compact PU of the field.
I can't see how having the compressor at the front makes for a more compact engine than having it at the rear.

Mercedes have a very large compressor, which is thin, which would help with the compactness. But the compressor inlet is at the front of the engine, so the ducting to feed that has to be at the front as well.

Renault and Ferrari duct the air into the compressor at the rear, possibly between the cylinder banks.

Honda's original design, with the compressor in the vee, would have been more compact.

Both Ferrari and Mercedes added around 5kg to their engines this year, to cope with the extra stress brought by teh new chassis regulations. Not sure about Renault.

Manoah2u
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by Manoah2u » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:38 pm

OPOhan wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:43 pm
First sneak peak of MCL33
https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/940575288190173185
https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5ABA221A

Edit Thunder: Added Source
so, should we be excited it's red and white? :wtf:
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL33 Speculation thread

Post by PhillipM » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:56 pm

I like the pipe-lagging halo :lol:
Mind, there's a huge amount of work going into the MCL33's halo, the FIA have set off another arms race again by allowing aero shrounds, deflectors, multi-foil wings, vortex generators already all over them.