2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by adrianjordan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:48 pm

I think a lot will depend on how good the Renault PU in the Renault and Mclaren is compared to the Merc PU.

I'm hoping they're all fairly evenly matched and we can have a very close fight all season long. I do feel though that, if it is close, Alonso still has an edge on the drivers in the other teams.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

IamLegend
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by IamLegend » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 pm

adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:48 pm
I think a lot will depend on how good the Renault PU in the Renault and Mclaren is compared to the Merc PU.

I'm hoping they're all fairly evenly matched and we can have a very close fight all season long. I do feel though that, if it is close, Alonso still has an edge on the drivers in the other teams.

I agree that the fight will get tougher next season, but let's look at somethings that might help SFi to be in a pretty decent position:

1. The driver line-up is solid compared to most mid-field teams apart from Renault, I think Williams (if they go with Kubica, but if they go for the second pay seat due to point #2 then they'll be fighting TR instead of SFi for sure), TR and McLaren still will have one of their drivers performing consistently but not both.

2. Development team again one of the best in terms of value for money, I read somewhere that Liberty Media has already said this year's prize money isn't going to be as high compared t last year, so teams need to shell out more money from their pockets for developing their 2018 design.

3. Limited amount of PUs, new regulations bring it down to 3 from this years 4 and with new restrictions on lowering oil burning, Ferrari needs to come up with a more efficient design to produce as much power as it's Mercedes counterpart. Also if you'll noticed, throughout the season the slimmer sidepods never came from SFi, I think it was a stroke of brilliance by development team, all other teams will have to rework the sidepods to make certain the engines don't overheat and last them for 6-7 races in the season but SFi have the data with how much they can achieve with this year's design.

4. This is going to be the biggest game changer in my opinion, Pirelli have been asked to make the compounds more prone to wear which means we'll return to days where either it'll lead to tire management and I'm not sure about Ocon, but Perez is a master when it comes to that or we will at the least have better races with more pitstops compared to boring races like Abu Dhabi this year where the one stop race ruined all chances for undercut or overcutting.

Read the analysis from the two articles below, it sums up pretty nicely what we can except.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/11/ ... habi-2017/

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/12/ ... 17-season/

Article regarding lowered prize money distribution.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13319 ... f-a-crisis
Last edited by IamLegend on Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NAPI10
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by NAPI10 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:36 am

IamLegend wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 pm
adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:48 pm
I think a lot will depend on how good the Renault PU in the Renault and Mclaren is compared to the Merc PU.

I'm hoping they're all fairly evenly matched and we can have a very close fight all season long. I do feel though that, if it is close, Alonso still has an edge on the drivers in the other teams.

I agree that the fight will get tougher next season, but let's look at somethings that might help SFi to be in a pretty decent position:

1. The driver line-up is solid compared to most mid-field teams apart from Renault, I think Williams (if they go with Kubica, but if they go for the second pay seat due to point #2 then they'll be fighting TR instead of SFi for sure), TR and McLaren still will have one of their drivers performing consistently but not both.

2. Development team again one of the best in terms of value for money, I read somewhere that Liberty Media has already said this year's prize money isn't going to be as high compared t last year, so teams need to shell out more money from their pockets for developing their 2018 design.

3. Limited amount of PUs, new regulations bring it down to 3 from this years 4 and with new restrictions on lowering oil burning Ferrari needs to come up with a more efficient design to produce as much power as it's Mercedes counter part. Also if you noticed throughout the season the slimmer sidepods never came from SFi, I think it was a stroke of brilliance by development team, all other teams will have to rework the sidepods to make certain the engines don't overheat and last them for 6-7 races in the season.

4. This is going to be the biggest game changer in my opinion, Pirelli have been asked to make the compounds more prone to wear which means we'll return to days where either it'll lead to tire management and I'm not sure about Ocon, but Perez is a master when it comes to that or we will at the least have better races with more pitstops compared to boring races like Abu Dhabi this year where the one stop race ruined all chances for undercut or overcutting.

Read the analysis from the two articles below, it sums up pretty nicely what we can except.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/11/ ... habi-2017/

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/12/ ... 17-season/

Article regarding lowered prize money distribution.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13319 ... f-a-crisis
I am thinking on same line; specially point 3 & 4.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Restomaniac » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:10 am

IamLegend wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 pm
adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:48 pm
I think a lot will depend on how good the Renault PU in the Renault and Mclaren is compared to the Merc PU.

I'm hoping they're all fairly evenly matched and we can have a very close fight all season long. I do feel though that, if it is close, Alonso still has an edge on the drivers in the other teams.

I agree that the fight will get tougher next season, but let's look at somethings that might help SFi to be in a pretty decent position:

1. The driver line-up is solid compared to most mid-field teams apart from Renault, I think Williams (if they go with Kubica, but if they go for the second pay seat due to point #2 then they'll be fighting TR instead of SFi for sure), TR and McLaren still will have one of their drivers performing consistently but not both.

2. Development team again one of the best in terms of value for money, I read somewhere that Liberty Media has already said this year's prize money isn't going to be as high compared t last year, so teams need to shell out more money from their pockets for developing their 2018 design.

3. Limited amount of PUs, new regulations bring it down to 3 from this years 4 and with new restrictions on lowering oil burning Ferrari needs to come up with a more efficient design to produce as much power as it's Mercedes counter part. Also if you noticed throughout the season the slimmer sidepods never came from SFi, I think it was a stroke of brilliance by development team, all other teams will have to rework the sidepods to make certain the engines don't overheat and last them for 6-7 races in the season.

4. This is going to be the biggest game changer in my opinion, Pirelli have been asked to make the compounds more prone to wear which means we'll return to days where either it'll lead to tire management and I'm not sure about Ocon, but Perez is a master when it comes to that or we will at the least have better races with more pitstops compared to boring races like Abu Dhabi this year where the one stop race ruined all chances for undercut or overcutting.

Read the analysis from the two articles below, it sums up pretty nicely what we can except.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/11/ ... habi-2017/

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/12/ ... 17-season/

Article regarding lowered prize money distribution.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13319 ... f-a-crisis
So let me get this straight.
Renault allowed Hulk to hammer his engine to keep the 5 seconds ahead so Renault could beat STR in the WCC. I wonder what Renault's answer would have been if a STR driver had asked for similar allowances?
What did STR say about Renault that so annoyed them again?

Sorry if this isn't the place for this but it's the first time I've seen it come up.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:43 am

TR believes Renault purposelly holds them back to secure the WCC position, after Renault claimed the problems they were having was TR's fault, not Renault's.

the 5-sec penalty was a complete facade. should have gotten a stop and go.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

marmer
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by marmer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:20 am

If current penalty rules stay in place but engines don't become more reliable force India will walk away with 4th spot again. No major rule changes. Great drivers best engine good car to start with.
Renault have good drivers but car is currently not as quick as force India across the season.
Toro rosso are an unknown due to engine change car was good at start of year but failed to keep pace
Williams don't seem to know how to make a fast car since 2014
If McLaren pull off the engine change then maybe they will get 4th

dren
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by dren » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:32 pm

I see a FI vs Mclaren fight through the year for 4th. Lots of Perez and Alonso wheel to wheel action. I expect FI to pull it out due to the Mercedes PU.
Honda!

IamLegend
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by IamLegend » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 pm

dren wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:32 pm
I see a FI vs Mclaren fight through the year for 4th. Lots of Perez and Alonso wheel to wheel action. I expect FI to pull it out due to the Mercedes PU.
First time in the last 3 years that SFi have hauled so many points without a podium, consistency - another strength that'll help them so much. The Renault supplied teams will definitely feel the pinch of the reduced numbers of PUs, expect a lot of "turned down" engine modes with sparing chances for attack settings, this year's Mexico comes to mind.

Raleigh
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Raleigh » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:29 am

Force India will face a much tougher fight in 2018, with no major changes to driver line-up, budget or personnel they are are unlikely to either gain or lose ground to the top 3 however McLaren, Renault and Williams all look poised to be stronger in 2018 than they were in 2017.

McLaren already has an excellent chassis and driver lineup, with a more competitive engine they may well leap over the midfield fight and join Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull fighting for wins.

2017 Renault was the team's first new car under current technical staff (2016 Renault being a 2015 Lotus), they have plenty of room for improvement on the 2nd try and the team also has a much improved line-up, 2 drivers who can consistently get good results instead of 1.

2017 Williams was underdeveloped and missing a technical director over the crucial winter period, 2018 will be a fresh start with Paddy Lowe from Mercedes and Dirk de Beers from Ferrari, at the very least the car will be a substantial departure from Williams past design and is likely to be more competitive.

All in all, Force India will have a lot more competition for 4th place in 2018.

ME4ME
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by ME4ME » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:21 am

I don't believe Williams will beat Force India. Not with Williams' driver line-up (regardless of who they pick from the available bunch) and recent history of poor cars.

I do believe Force India will be firmly beaten by Mclaren. I don't think Force India stands a chance.

The battle will be with Renault for 5th. Should be a good one. Hopefully the team and drivers have learned from 2017 and can avoid the massive points loss that occured this year.

bill shoe
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by bill shoe » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:06 am

FI in tough situation next year. They've strongly over-performed for the last two or three years, and if they merely do good in 2018 and drop back a position or two in constructors then it will seem like a fail. They are in the unique position of kicking butt all over the midfield and simultaneously having no real prospect of becoming a front-runner. They'll only go down from here.

I still worry that the Vijay Mallya's shenanigans will come crashing down and wreak havoc on this great team. Everything that can't go on forever... doesn't.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Manoah2u » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:57 am

Vijay Mallya's supposed shenanigans have zero effect. they have had zero effect for the last years and won't have coming season. I resent that Vijay is treated like that, people have judged them aforehand based upon some lousy media articles that are one-sided and paint him as a evil guy, whilst the opposite is true. Nobody says he's a saint, but then again, point to me one that is. there are none. Some Indian people who feel like they can get money from him want his head. His point about getting handed to India and then risking torture is actually a valid point. People should really look into what happens in India, instead of thinking it's a peaceful country with a functioning system just because there's lots of riches there. Yes, there are big riches, but theres even bigger poverty, and it's one of the most corrupt countries on the world. Mallya hasn't returned to his 'home' country for years now because of these hyena's and corruption, he's gonna be toast. A little research provides he actually through lawyers tried to fix the 'problem' or bring payments to resolve the situation, but his 'prosecuters' are unwilling to comply and demand only one thing, that he gets there. if they were really honest about the cases, then the situation would have been resolved long ago. The justice system in india ALREADY has sentenced him without a fair trial, what do you expect is gonna happen?

Anyway, back to Force India itself.

The Merc power will keep them still in a strong position. The chassis too, they have a very very good chassis especially concidering their budget. On top of that they have one of the strongest driver pairings. The only 'weakness' they might have is that both drivers don't really enjoy eachother - not different to Rosberg-Hamilton. The chassis however might be facing it's 'natural evolving end' though one must say, little changes for next season in that department anyway. Some mentions above absolutely are true, Perez is a natural talent for tire management, Force India produce a chassis that doesn't overheat and helps reliability. Their car is strong on almost every circuit. They have a solid team that is virtually the same for years by now, and have invested a long while into getting where they are now. Then, on top of that, this year they managed to grab a huge sponsor which brings them much desired money. That money has not been invested - too much - into this years car, but will be aimed for 2018, and next season they'll keep that sponsor and thus money flow intact.

that means that they'll have more money to spend than in the development process towards 2017, they have an even better driver pairing than before 2017, they are arguably the best team in spending their funds efficiently, and a bunch of their competitors will be in a less preferable situation come 18 season.

Toro Rosso will be all the way to the back, Honda power or not, Gasly and Hartley are one of the less exciting and weakest pairings i can recall. Alfa Romeo Sauber will make a jump forward from the back but still have Ericsson and rookie LeClerc, they wont get near them at all. Williams has been sinking down and down again like before despite massive money investments. Kubica is great but the team isn't. They'll be at the back. Renault probably will be in a better position next year but on the other hand, reliability has been an issue and you'll need that harder next year. Also, i feel Sainz vs Hulk clashes coming up.Mclaren is probably the only one to make things hard with Alonso, but then again they have that same Renault engine as Renault themselves. And, how will they now handle the pressure.
Haas is slowly fading back too. Grosjean's fire is burning up and becoming frustrated again, Magnussen is a rocket but a uncontrolled one, and well, the team isn't too good in developing.

Meanwhile, there are some other aspects to take into account

Mercedes will bring a total new chassis. Who knows what that'll bring them. It might make things harder for them, and bring the field closer together, which in turn could increase chances for contact and thus DNF's. Ferrari keeps everything almost the same. Not bad at all, but reliability has been a big problem and i can see even more of that happening, and then Vettel is a hothead. Finally, RedBull. Same renault engine, and we have seen what that did to them 17 season. They have arguably the strongest driver pairing though.

Conclusion; Force India is the team that seems to have things in place to maintain it's stability and circumstances just as this year whilst most around them change massively. I think they're able to once again get for that P4, and SFi usually is strongest at the season start, right when the competition is somewhat playing russian roulette. I think we might see some surprises from Force India in 2018.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

IamLegend
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by IamLegend » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:28 pm

bill shoe wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:06 am
FI in tough situation next year. They've strongly over-performed for the last two or three years, and if they merely do good in 2018 and drop back a position or two in constructors then it will seem like a fail. They are in the unique position of kicking butt all over the midfield and simultaneously having no real prospect of becoming a front-runner. They'll only go down from here.

I still worry that the Vijay Mallya's shenanigans will come crashing down and wreak havoc on this great team. Everything that can't go on forever... doesn't.

It's begun...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/forc ... ar-988007/

Manoah2u
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by Manoah2u » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:53 pm

Please, oh please let them win a race or 2. With Perez and then Ocon.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

proteus
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Re: 2018 Force India F1 Team - Mercedes

Post by proteus » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:52 pm

IamLegend wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:28 pm
bill shoe wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:06 am
FI in tough situation next year. They've strongly over-performed for the last two or three years, and if they merely do good in 2018 and drop back a position or two in constructors then it will seem like a fail. They are in the unique position of kicking butt all over the midfield and simultaneously having no real prospect of becoming a front-runner. They'll only go down from here.

I still worry that the Vijay Mallya's shenanigans will come crashing down and wreak havoc on this great team. Everything that can't go on forever... doesn't.

It's begun...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/forc ... ar-988007/
They are an excelent Jordan successors.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows