Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

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Who will finish the 2018 season higher Mclaren or Toro Rosso?

Mclaren because "best chassis"
82
57%
Toro Rosso because "transition year"
35
24%
Nobody cares go away!
26
18%
 
Total votes: 143

Redragon
46
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:23 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by Redragon » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:44 am

baybars wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:43 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:10 pm
McLaren will have much more power to work with going from 2017 to 2018, so unless The customer Merc PU will also receive a major boost FI will have their hands full, and why RBR not as well, we will see.

Power last year:

Https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... taerksten- motoren-der-formel1-geschichte-8220003.html

Mercedes 949 bhp
Ferrari 934 bhp
Renault 907 bhp
Honda 881 bhp
I write same things on Renault PU topic
According to your source link hp numbers has been calculated base on Abu dhabi gp.
On Abu dhabi gp Renault pu used conservative setting because of possible reliability problem
Additional info Renault official confirmation 2017 power unit(beginning of the season) was over 900 hp
I beleive that Renault PU close to Ferrari PU than above numbers(end of the season)
Same can be said for Honda, they were running conservative settings the whole year because of reliability so Honda could be close to 900 Hp

lio007
236
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by lio007 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:38 am

Redragon wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:44 am
baybars wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:43 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:10 pm
McLaren will have much more power to work with going from 2017 to 2018, so unless The customer Merc PU will also receive a major boost FI will have their hands full, and why RBR not as well, we will see.

Power last year:

Https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... taerksten- motoren-der-formel1-geschichte-8220003.html

Mercedes 949 bhp
Ferrari 934 bhp
Renault 907 bhp
Honda 881 bhp
I write same things on Renault PU topic
According to your source link hp numbers has been calculated base on Abu dhabi gp.
On Abu dhabi gp Renault pu used conservative setting because of possible reliability problem
Additional info Renault official confirmation 2017 power unit(beginning of the season) was over 900 hp
I beleive that Renault PU close to Ferrari PU than above numbers(end of the season)
Same can be said for Honda, they were running conservative settings the whole year because of reliability so Honda could be close to 900 Hp
Take a look at this:
viewtopic.php?p=733435#p733435

techman
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by techman » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:16 pm

i thin mclaren renault fans will be dissappointed to find their car behind redbull.

McHonda
12
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by McHonda » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:05 am

techman wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:16 pm
i thin mclaren renault fans will be dissappointed to find their car behind redbull.
I think most McLaren fans are expecting that to be honest. I think they'll be disappointed if they're far away from Red Bull and also behind someone else like Renault or Force India.

techman
-15
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by techman » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:46 am

I think most McLaren fans are expecting that to be honest. I think they'll be disappointed if they're far away from Red Bull and also behind someone else like Renault or Force India.
interesting i thought mclaren were boasting about how good their chassis is and its a top 3 , how come mclaren fans dont believe what mclaren say? if they are a top 3 then they should be ahead of redbull right?

anyway which position do u expect them to be come melbourne?

carisi2k
20
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by carisi2k » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:33 am

Red Bull were only 0.9 of a second off Mercedes with a hand grenade of an engine so how is Mclaren going to get any where near Red Bull with the same engine when Red Bull have optimised around that engine for 4 years. Mclaren and Renault were only faster then Toro Rosso at the end of the year when Renault started giving TR spare parts as an engine.

As for Toro Rosso and Honda the spec 4.0 Honda was apparently at least the equivalent of the 2017 Renault in HP at somewhere in the low 900's. With some more evolution for the 2018 engine. I wouldn't mind on betting Toro Rosso surprising Mclaren and Renault in 2018 especially as there will be some Red Bull input into chassis integration throughout 2018 in preparation for their move to Honda in 2019.

McHonda
12
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by McHonda » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:35 am

techman wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:46 am
I think most McLaren fans are expecting that to be honest. I think they'll be disappointed if they're far away from Red Bull and also behind someone else like Renault or Force India.
interesting i thought mclaren were boasting about how good their chassis is and its a top 3 , how come mclaren fans dont believe what mclaren say? if they are a top 3 then they should be ahead of redbull right?

anyway which position do u expect them to be come melbourne?
I'm sure there were some tracks last year that the chassis did perform in or at the Top3 car's level but it's no guarantee that the 33 will be a constant Top3 car at all tracks from the off this year. We'll have to see how everyone deals with the Halo and of course see how McLaren's switch to Renault goes car wise(sounds good so far).

I'm thinking 4th row and within 5ths of Red Bull. From Spain on wards hopefully closing that gap, switching to the more aggressive cooling package like RB use maybe if everything goes well reliability wise and/or just general developments bringing more competitiveness and chances for the drivers to do their thing in the second half of the season.

marmer
20
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:48 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by marmer » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:08 pm

carisi2k wrote:Red Bull were only 0.9 of a second off Mercedes with a hand grenade of an engine so how is Mclaren going to get any where near Red Bull with the same engine when Red Bull have optimised around that engine for 4 years. Mclaren and Renault were only faster then Toro Rosso at the end of the year when Renault started giving TR spare parts as an engine.

As for Toro Rosso and Honda the spec 4.0 Honda was apparently at least the equivalent of the 2017 Renault in HP at somewhere in the low 900's. With some more evolution for the 2018 engine. I wouldn't mind on betting Toro Rosso surprising Mclaren and Renault in 2018 especially as there will be some Red Bull input into chassis integration throughout 2018 in preparation for their move to Honda in 2019.
By the end of the year Renault actually where not that far from force India and faster than Williams McLaren just behind that. They had more or less both managed to put daylight between them and Toro rosso

anti ranter
0
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:35 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by anti ranter » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:46 am

I almost sure Mclaren will be ahead of Toro rosso .
Toro Rosso chassis was not good. Toro Rosso driver below of average and Honda motor could not reach 900 ps end of the season
Honda need at least two year for competitive power unit.
Honda's closest competitor is at least 50 hp stronger than Honda

carisi2k
20
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by carisi2k » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:53 pm

marmer wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:08 pm
carisi2k wrote:Red Bull were only 0.9 of a second off Mercedes with a hand grenade of an engine so how is Mclaren going to get any where near Red Bull with the same engine when Red Bull have optimised around that engine for 4 years. Mclaren and Renault were only faster then Toro Rosso at the end of the year when Renault started giving TR spare parts as an engine.

As for Toro Rosso and Honda the spec 4.0 Honda was apparently at least the equivalent of the 2017 Renault in HP at somewhere in the low 900's. With some more evolution for the 2018 engine. I wouldn't mind on betting Toro Rosso surprising Mclaren and Renault in 2018 especially as there will be some Red Bull input into chassis integration throughout 2018 in preparation for their move to Honda in 2019.
By the end of the year Renault actually where not that far from force India and faster than Williams McLaren just behind that. They had more or less both managed to put daylight between them and Toro rosso
Gee I wonder why this was the case. Up until the announcement in Singapore, Toro Rosso was ahead Renault. After Japan Toro Rosso had lost their number 1 driver to Renault and fired, hired and then re fired there number 2 driver and ended with 2 rookies with PU's built of scrap metal blowing up in just about every session. Carlos Sainz scored 54 points in 2017. 48 of them with Toro Rosso before he left for Renault. Nico Hulkenberg only scored 43 points the entire 2017 campaign.

Mclaren Honda with an improving spec 3.8 Honda engine was of course better then Toro Rosso whose had spare parts where a PU was supposed to be post Singapore. Wazari has said that the spec 4.0 was 20-30hp better then the 3.8 and we know from a post in the Honda and Mercedes thread that the spec 3.8 was producing 881hp which puts it somewhere in the 901-911hp range. Roughly right in the Renault power range. We also know that it was more reliable at the end of 2017 then the Renault.

With Toro Rosso's performance before Singapore and Honda's progression throughout 2017 I would not put it out of the midfield fight at all. Unless the Mclaren is truly able to compete with the Red Bull on performance then expect a great midfield fight in 2018.

humble sabot
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Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:33 am

Re: Mclaren Vs Toro Rosso 2018 - time capsule

Post by humble sabot » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:55 am

I like this game. But i'm not sure if the reasons you've given map very well.
I was just pondering the McLaren, and I've come to the surprising conclusion that she may be the low drag hero this year. But that only makes a winning car if as you suggest, the chassis is on point. First footage I saw from testing suggested that they were having the most trouble getting a setup out on track that was well behaved. But the second video from later laps suggested a fairly driveable chassis. I'm not willing to make a pronouncement yet. I think it'll be down to the team making the right decisions. I expect some strange decisions. I don't know what's up with them.
As for TR, well, they don't really make a lot of mistakes. Honda may or may not have been able to provide an engine that keeps them out of the grid penalty zone. Total unknown right now.
Their ability to put together a chassis and program is only slightly off the mark, and they right now seem to be one of the most motivated teams on the grid and the 'apparent' fundamentals of the car seem to be good.

I'm going to say Torro Rosso takes it by 6 points, with consistency, barring any Honda related issues. Averaging a couple points a race.
McLaren, definitely mixing it with the front of the midfield regularly, several races with a few points from both cars, but some fatal race planning costing them points in too many races.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
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