Kubica to return to racing .....

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kptaylor
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by kptaylor » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:29 pm

Latest news says Friday will be the day for a Williams' announcement. Supposedly Sirotkin and Kubica still in the running but who really knows besides Williams?

Manoah2u
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by Manoah2u » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:37 pm

so latest around is that Sirotkin will be handed a 2-year racing contract alongside Stroll............

i guess Kubica won't ever return into F1 in racing format. ah well, he got real far anyway.
Let's hope he then goes LeMans or Indy and grabs the grand prizes there.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ringo
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by ringo » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:31 am

it seems sirotkyn was quicker on the tyres because he had more experience with the current cars.
Kubica is said to need more time to adapt.
Whatever the case, i think Sergei must be pretty good to come out the quicker driver. If you are fast you are fast, and i guess Williams simply need a driver that can hit the ground running and not need Stroll to help him out with settling in.
For Sure!!

Manoah2u
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by Manoah2u » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:17 pm

Pretty good in showing Williams all that they're recently interested in; Money.
Kubica shows potential and capabilities. Stroll and Sirotkin wave loads and loads of money.
Claire needs to pay the diapers for her kid, so she'll take Sergei's pamper money.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

The_table
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by The_table » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:09 pm

I would expect Kubica to be amazing for their PR, fans would love them for it and that sells merch...
(Not to mention, they could give him a 6 race contract or something to make sure he has the speed, if he does not the fans would understand but still be very happy to have seen him.)

netoperek
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by netoperek » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:36 pm

Ringo, when did Sirotkin came out the quicker driver? Kubica posted Williams' best time of the post-season Abu Dhabi Pirelli tyre test.

RedNEO
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by RedNEO » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:57 am

netoperek wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:36 pm
Ringo, when did Sirotkin came out the quicker driver? Kubica posted Williams' best time of the post-season Abu Dhabi Pirelli tyre test.
Because he was the only one to use 2018 hypersofts to barely beat Sirotkins soft tyre time. When you compare their times on the same tyres Sirotkin is clearly much faster.

netoperek
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by netoperek » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:14 pm

RedNEO wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:57 am
netoperek wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:36 pm
Ringo, when did Sirotkin came out the quicker driver? Kubica posted Williams' best time of the post-season Abu Dhabi Pirelli tyre test.
Because he was the only one to use 2018 hypersofts to barely beat Sirotkins soft tyre time. When you compare their times on the same tyres Sirotkin is clearly much faster.
Stroll also had a run on hypersofts and has been slower even though Kubica admittedly screwed up his hot lap. I guess it is not very surprising to anyone but still worth mentioning. That barely beat related to half a second. It was a tyre test not a constant qually mode, teams couldn't even change their test schedule and setups without Pirelli's approval. You can't really compare reliably lootking at the times alone. I already posted this one before, but i think it can be a good reminder of what has probably happened out there: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ns-answers
My point is - we can't really tell exactly how fast either of them is (apart from Stroll being most likely the slowest), but one thing seems worth noting - Sirotkin has not been outclassed as expected. Whether it was due to Sirotkins speed, Kubica's lack of, or clever test program planning to justify 2 paydrivers lineup, it raised some questions. Only Williams have a clear picture of it, but will keep that knowlegde close to themselves to use it as it suits them.
In my opinion SS used his chance properly and gave some solid arguments to give him more chances (preferably in Stroll's car), even though it could be "staged" to some extent and despite he has already been beaten by RK in Valencia (which has been a proper shoot out), was unable to kick Palmer out of his seat in Renault and the fact that only title he has won was european Formula Abarth trophy in 2011. I'm not totally against the guy as it seems he could be a decent driver in time, not only a cash supplier. Even if he was objectively faster than Kubica in this particular test (which i doubt) I don't want to see a Stroll - Sirotkin lineup as the latter lack proper experience and former seems like can't benefit from his, both can't really push the team forward development wise and lets face it, they're not exactly WDC material. Kubica has been regarded as one in his day and at least can tick off the other two boxes. There's not really any other alternative for #1 driver at the moment.

RedNEO
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by RedNEO » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:28 pm

netoperek wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:14 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:57 am
netoperek wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:36 pm
Ringo, when did Sirotkin came out the quicker driver? Kubica posted Williams' best time of the post-season Abu Dhabi Pirelli tyre test.
Because he was the only one to use 2018 hypersofts to barely beat Sirotkins soft tyre time. When you compare their times on the same tyres Sirotkin is clearly much faster.
Stroll also had a run on hypersofts and has been slower even though Kubica admittedly screwed up his hot lap. I guess it is not very surprising to anyone but still worth mentioning. That barely beat related to half a second. It was a tyre test not a constant qually mode, teams couldn't even change their test schedule and setups without Pirelli's approval. You can't really compare reliably lootking at the times alone. I already posted this one before, but i think it can be a good reminder of what has probably happened out there: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ns-answers
My point is - we can't really tell exactly how fast either of them is (apart from Stroll being most likely the slowest), but one thing seems worth noting - Sirotkin has not been outclassed as expected. Whether it was due to Sirotkins speed, Kubica's lack of, or clever test program planning to justify 2 paydrivers lineup, it raised some questions. Only Williams have a clear picture of it, but will keep that knowlegde close to themselves to use it as it suits them.
In my opinion SS used his chance properly and gave some solid arguments to give him more chances (preferably in Stroll's car), even though it could be "staged" to some extent and despite he has already been beaten by RK in Valencia (which has been a proper shoot out), was unable to kick Palmer out of his seat in Renault and the fact that only title he has won was european Formula Abarth trophy in 2011. I'm not totally against the guy as it seems he could be a decent driver in time, not only a cash supplier. Even if he was objectively faster than Kubica in this particular test (which i doubt) I don't want to see a Stroll - Sirotkin lineup as the latter lack proper experience and former seems like can't benefit from his, both can't really push the team forward development wise and lets face it, they're not exactly WDC material. Kubica has been regarded as one in his day and at least can tick off the other two boxes. There's not really any other alternative for #1 driver at the moment.
You know nothing about Valencia to say who was actually faster, only Renault knows and they have come out supporting Sirotkin to get the Williams seat so that’s pretty telling. Williams compared Sirotkin and Kubica and chose Sirotkin so he must have impressed them as much as he did Renault. Nothing more nothing less.

Manoah2u
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by Manoah2u » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:58 pm

I'll just leave this here so people will use their brains over having the complete wrong assumption that Sirotkin is 'better' than Kubica as racing driver.
It's about the money.

here you go, shouldn't be too hard to figure this one out.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/bill ... tkin-seat/
Powerful Russian businessman Boris Rotenberg says he is pushing hard to secure Sergey Sirotkin's place on the 2018 grid.
Sirotkin's backers, including the SMP Bank owner and billionaire Rotenberg who is reportedly close to Vladimir Putin, are reportedly promising over EUR 15 million in sponsorship.

Rotenberg told Russian media he is working hard on the deal.
what more is there to take?

Offcourse the team will try and downplay that they did it for the $$$$.
They'll excuse themselves by twisting or taking data out of it's context to act like Kubica couldn't perform as good as Sergey would, crushing Kubica's chances along the way.

Anybody with even the littlest of thinking capacity understands that Kubica would never have reached testing modern day F1 cars, and get backed from a F1 WORLD CHAMPION working HARD to get him a seat in the form of Nico Rosberg, not just some ex-washed up driver like Pizzonia, and be seriously concidered for a racing seat.

Robert is being put down the dumpster by Williams because F1 wants a russian driver there, because of the russian GP, and the UEFA coming down in russia in 2018. It's politics, and with some bloke 'friends' with the horrible putin, who has been at every Russian GP glorifying himself, there's really no honest chance for Kubica.

Had Kvyat still been with ToroRosso for 2018, 100% Guaranteed Kubica would have been signed. But Marko ditching Kvyat for Gasly/Hartley terminated Kubica's chances of a F1 return in 2018, and with that, essentially, crushes his prospects because he will now be painted as 'incompetent' for returnin to F1, which is the real unfairness of it all.

Kubica is a absolute legend for what he has done, he was phenomenal whilst in his former F1 career, always able to overcome any setback, including a gigantic accident in montreal. He was as fast and capable as Lewis Hamilton, and a force to reckon with. And then he had his accident, but managed to overcome all that is paired to that, both mentally - which is really the biggest victory imaginable - and physically, essentially 'losing an arm', and coming back all the way.

As far as i'm concerned, Kubica is the hero of the day, no matter whether he ever returns to F1 in a racing seat.
Kubica just doing 1 race in F1 again would be more of an achievement and accomplisment than any driver becoming a WDC in F1 i dare say.

It just feels really unjustful that something that great gets stolen from us, both fans and non-fans of kubica, because of some russian money, and it kinda makes me sick.

Again, i'll repeat; had Kvyat been in the Toro Rosso seat for 2018, Kubica would have been announced at Williams before the end of 2017. Just let that get through.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

The_table
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by The_table » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:20 pm

I'm expecting that the fans will resent Willams for this...

netoperek
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by netoperek » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:19 pm

RedNEO wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:28 pm
netoperek wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:14 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:57 am


Because he was the only one to use 2018 hypersofts to barely beat Sirotkins soft tyre time. When you compare their times on the same tyres Sirotkin is clearly much faster.
Stroll also had a run on hypersofts and has been slower even though Kubica admittedly screwed up his hot lap. I guess it is not very surprising to anyone but still worth mentioning. That barely beat related to half a second. It was a tyre test not a constant qually mode, teams couldn't even change their test schedule and setups without Pirelli's approval. You can't really compare reliably lootking at the times alone. I already posted this one before, but i think it can be a good reminder of what has probably happened out there: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ns-answers
My point is - we can't really tell exactly how fast either of them is (apart from Stroll being most likely the slowest), but one thing seems worth noting - Sirotkin has not been outclassed as expected. Whether it was due to Sirotkins speed, Kubica's lack of, or clever test program planning to justify 2 paydrivers lineup, it raised some questions. Only Williams have a clear picture of it, but will keep that knowlegde close to themselves to use it as it suits them.
In my opinion SS used his chance properly and gave some solid arguments to give him more chances (preferably in Stroll's car), even though it could be "staged" to some extent and despite he has already been beaten by RK in Valencia (which has been a proper shoot out), was unable to kick Palmer out of his seat in Renault and the fact that only title he has won was european Formula Abarth trophy in 2011. I'm not totally against the guy as it seems he could be a decent driver in time, not only a cash supplier. Even if he was objectively faster than Kubica in this particular test (which i doubt) I don't want to see a Stroll - Sirotkin lineup as the latter lack proper experience and former seems like can't benefit from his, both can't really push the team forward development wise and lets face it, they're not exactly WDC material. Kubica has been regarded as one in his day and at least can tick off the other two boxes. There's not really any other alternative for #1 driver at the moment.
You know nothing about Valencia to say who was actually faster, only Renault knows and they have come out supporting Sirotkin to get the Williams seat so that’s pretty telling. Williams compared Sirotkin and Kubica and chose Sirotkin so he must have impressed them as much as he did Renault. Nothing more nothing less.
Renault and even SS confirmed that Robert has been 0.4s faster than him "out of the box".

netoperek
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by netoperek » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:34 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:58 pm
...
You probably have already noticed I have a similar feeling about the situtation :D . I do feel sort of sorry for guys like Sirotkin and Kvyat, however. They have it a bit easier with political and financial backing to get into the sport, but they are sportsmen after all - being branded paydriver can't be good for Your confidence. They end up naturally in teams interested in their financial support more than their talent and I guess they're being treated differently than guys who came up on talent alone. I imagine it must be hard to take off that label and in consequence can have impact on actual results. Who knows how many real talents could have been diminished by taking shortcuts

RedNEO
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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by RedNEO » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:13 pm

netoperek wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:19 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:28 pm
netoperek wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:14 pm


Stroll also had a run on hypersofts and has been slower even though Kubica admittedly screwed up his hot lap. I guess it is not very surprising to anyone but still worth mentioning. That barely beat related to half a second. It was a tyre test not a constant qually mode, teams couldn't even change their test schedule and setups without Pirelli's approval. You can't really compare reliably lootking at the times alone. I already posted this one before, but i think it can be a good reminder of what has probably happened out there: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ns-answers
My point is - we can't really tell exactly how fast either of them is (apart from Stroll being most likely the slowest), but one thing seems worth noting - Sirotkin has not been outclassed as expected. Whether it was due to Sirotkins speed, Kubica's lack of, or clever test program planning to justify 2 paydrivers lineup, it raised some questions. Only Williams have a clear picture of it, but will keep that knowlegde close to themselves to use it as it suits them.
In my opinion SS used his chance properly and gave some solid arguments to give him more chances (preferably in Stroll's car), even though it could be "staged" to some extent and despite he has already been beaten by RK in Valencia (which has been a proper shoot out), was unable to kick Palmer out of his seat in Renault and the fact that only title he has won was european Formula Abarth trophy in 2011. I'm not totally against the guy as it seems he could be a decent driver in time, not only a cash supplier. Even if he was objectively faster than Kubica in this particular test (which i doubt) I don't want to see a Stroll - Sirotkin lineup as the latter lack proper experience and former seems like can't benefit from his, both can't really push the team forward development wise and lets face it, they're not exactly WDC material. Kubica has been regarded as one in his day and at least can tick off the other two boxes. There's not really any other alternative for #1 driver at the moment.
You know nothing about Valencia to say who was actually faster, only Renault knows and they have come out supporting Sirotkin to get the Williams seat so that’s pretty telling. Williams compared Sirotkin and Kubica and chose Sirotkin so he must have impressed them as much as he did Renault. Nothing more nothing less.
Renault and even SS confirmed that Robert has been 0.4s faster than him "out of the box".
No they didn’t but anyway the only thing that matters is the times we saw at Abu Dhabi since that’s all we have access to. Renault went out of there way to say Sirotkin deserves the seat so I think they know better than us and nobody can say anybody threw Russian money at them to make those comments. Why is it so hard to believe Sirotkin was just faster than Kubica?

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Re: Kubica to return to racing .....

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:01 am

All i can go on is the evidence of seeing SS in Gp2 for ages and not becoming anything better than a Alex Lynn, Sam Bird, Mitch Evans. They all ended up in Formula E which is were Sirotkin should go.

If he gets in to F1 it will be another Palmer, Nasr, Ericsson ect.

Manoah2u is spot on 100% and if Williams end up with Stroll and Sirotkin i hope they finish 10th in the WCC. Their driver lineup will be weaker than Toro Rosso ffs.
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