Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

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lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by lio007 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:44 am

carisi2k wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:37 am
He is at the red bull technology facility I believe. I read it somewhere at the end of last year.
I thought he has now another role in the Honda company.
Ah...I would really like to have some 'behind the scenes'-information...if only ;-)

Gerhardsa
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by Gerhardsa » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:06 am

LOL
Renault would have told the world about the "secret" long ago already if they weren't supplying RBR with engines in 2018.
There is no way RBR will put a Honda engine in the back for 2018. Zero chance

McMika98
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by McMika98 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:11 am

carisi2k wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:37 am
He is at the red bull technology facility I believe. I read it somewhere at the end of last year.
I think this is really farfetched. He has very little involvement with the design or integration, so dont see how he can contribute. Also no way are we seeing Honda engines on RedBull pre season, maybe mid season if Toro Rosso are up there.

f1316
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by f1316 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:26 am

Ah, I do like a good bit of preseason speculation!

But there are quite a few reasons this won’t happen - at any point in 2018 - not least of which:

- as one previous poster pointed out, RB don’t *have* to run the Renault engine, so long as they pay for it; but that would mean literally throwing tens of millions of dollars down the drain for absolutely no reason other than subterfuge (which gains them zero tenths on track). If they had any intention of running a Honda, they wouldn’t be paying for a Renault

- as we’ve discussed previously, even though pick up points are mandated to be the same between manufacturers, you can’t just swap one for the other; look at McLaren’s comments about switching the other way - there are fundamental differences in architecture. From McLaren’s comments , a swap between Honda > Mercedes or Renault > Ferrari would be easier - since those combinations share similar layouts - but even then i’m certain it would require adjustments in terms gearbox and bodywork.


I completely agree that Red Bull are distancing themselves from Renault and forging closer ties with Honda, but this is with a view to 2019 and with a BIG caveat that Honda will have to show sufficient progress this year, which is far from a given from their progress so far.

RB are in the perfect position with TR as a test bed, with access to all the necessary data, but the idea that putting a Honda in the car from Melbourne 2018 would help Max/
Danni Ric fight for the championship is kinda funny.

techman
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by techman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:26 am

i dont know if redbull struggle again this year to come close to mercedes , they might consider switching engines to get more mileage and prepare for a redbull honda 2019 assualt. it can happen but we will have to wait till mid season.

FPV GTHO
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by FPV GTHO » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:46 am

If Red Bull signed an exclusive contract with Renault for 2017-2018, that would pretty much mean they cant also run Hondas. Which they wont this year. Theyre not going to get away with that one twice.

So far all ive seen of Red Bull's involvement with Honda and Toro Rosso is Helmut Marko doing his usual thing. Theres been no noise from Horner or Newey that ive read.

roon
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by roon » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:15 pm

Does anyone know the contractual status between RB & Renault? Has money changed hands in regards to 2018? Engines delivered/not delivered...

carisi2k
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by carisi2k » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:01 pm

Red bull would never have signed an exclusive agreement with Renault. RB have been waiting for the perfect time to get out of that relationship and so there would be a buyout clause in any agreement they have signed with Renault.

The Honda improvements might just have convinced them that they have found the right engine for them and to forget about wasting a year with a third string Renault engine as early as a month after the September STR agreement. That is plenty of time to have the RB14 re configured for the Honda instead of a Renault.

Mclaren have been flattering Renault all NH winter and there has been almost zero communication between Red Bull and Renault which all points me towards this happening. I have seen only a single piece of info out about Red Bull talking about Renault and that was in a translated german article in this forum.

What we have heard from Red Bull is how Mclaren and Alonso made Honda look bad and how the Honda engine is significantly better then what they were led to believe by Mclaren. How well it fit into the STR chassis.

djos
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by djos » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:06 pm

carisi2k wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:01 pm
That is plenty of time to have the RB14 re configured for the Honda instead of a Renault.
Unless Honda have ditched their entire architecture and cloned the Renault layouts for everything, this is highly improbable! MacLaren themselves confirmed the Renault deal was only just done in time for them to build their '18 Car around the the Renault architecture!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

carisi2k
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by carisi2k » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:28 pm

How about post what I said properly and not leave out the important words.

The Honda went in easily to the STR13 test mule and so the Red Bull would also have a similar ease in moving to Honda. Mclaren's problem is because they have a size zero concept chassis and the Renault is not as small as the Honda. So yeah Mclaren couldn't have left it any later but that is not the case with STR and RBR and the Honda.

FPV GTHO
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by FPV GTHO » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:46 pm

carisi2k wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:01 pm
Red bull would never have signed an exclusive agreement with Renault. RB have been waiting for the perfect time to get out of that relationship and so there would be a buyout clause in any agreement they have signed with Renault.
Red Bull may have had no option. As the supplier, Renault would have had all the bargaining power. Particularly so as Red Bull had cancelled their existing contract in 2015.

Lets not forget the circumstances that first lead Red Bull to Renault in 2006. Do you think the manufacturers will fall for that again?!

Having a buyiut clause in the existing contract is another issue. Youre suggesting they will have a Honda contract ontop of the existing Renault deal. Whats to say the Tag Heuer deal would prevent such a fanciful situation from occuring as well?

djos
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by djos » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:16 pm

carisi2k wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:28 pm
How about post what I said properly and not leave out the important words.

The Honda went in easily to the STR13 test mule and so the Red Bull would also have a similar ease in moving to Honda. Mclaren's problem is because they have a size zero concept chassis and the Renault is not as small as the Honda. So yeah Mclaren couldn't have left it any later but that is not the case with STR and RBR and the Honda.
Test mules and bespoke cars are very different, switching engines this late in the game would require severe compromises to be made.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

carisi2k
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by carisi2k » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:24 am

djos wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:16 pm
carisi2k wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:28 pm
How about post what I said properly and not leave out the important words.

The Honda went in easily to the STR13 test mule and so the Red Bull would also have a similar ease in moving to Honda. Mclaren's problem is because they have a size zero concept chassis and the Renault is not as small as the Honda. So yeah Mclaren couldn't have left it any later but that is not the case with STR and RBR and the Honda.
Test mules and bespoke cars are very different, switching engines this late in the game would require severe compromises to be made.
My speculation isn't that they are changing this late in the game. My speculation is that this decision was done in late September / early October 2017 once the capability of the Honda was truly understood. Max signed up after visiting Honda and since then Red Bull have not only said nothing about Renault but have been saying nothing but good things about Honda and have an understanding of the failings of Mclaren.

Renault is going to be blind sided for sure but that relationship is dead.

djos
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by djos » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:36 am

carisi2k wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:24 am
My speculation isn't that they are changing this late in the game. My speculation is that this decision was done in late September / early October 2017 once the capability of the Honda was truly understood. Max signed up after visiting Honda and since then Red Bull have not only said nothing about Renault but have been saying nothing but good things about Honda and have an understanding of the failings of Mclaren.

Renault is going to be blind sided for sure but that relationship is dead.
We are all entitled to speculate but the evidence is not in your favour, Honda would be crowing about it if it were happening in '18. I think RBR will be Honda powered in '19 tho.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

zoroastar
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by zoroastar » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:05 am

carisi2k wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:01 pm
Red bull would never have signed an exclusive agreement with Renault. RB have been waiting for the perfect time to get out of that relationship and so there would be a buyout clause in any agreement they have signed with Renault.

The Honda improvements might just have convinced them that they have found the right engine for them and to forget about wasting a year with a third string Renault engine as early as a month after the September STR agreement. That is plenty of time to have the RB14 re configured for the Honda instead of a Renault.

Mclaren have been flattering Renault all NH winter and there has been almost zero communication between Red Bull and Renault which all points me towards this happening. I have seen only a single piece of info out about Red Bull talking about Renault and that was in a translated german article in this forum.

What we have heard from Red Bull is how Mclaren and Alonso made Honda look bad and how the Honda engine is significantly better then what they were led to believe by Mclaren. How well it fit into the STR chassis.
when did redbull ever mention renault very much, to any degree? even during their championship years 2010-13? redbull would be crazy to run the honda on "promising dyno figures" alone, and id be willing to bet that their two drivers would be PO'd as hell. i remember seeing ricciardo crack jokes about the honda PU on more than one occasion. maybe redbull fans are sick of renaults underperforming engines for the last few years, but swapping to honda, after 2017, when PU's are being reduced to 3 in 2018 would be a sure sign that somebody in redbull has lost their mind.