Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Mudflap » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:51 pm

Spot on TC - low Be content makes them legal.

I'm not convinced that the temperatures are as low as you might think though.
I have an article somewhere with a Cosworth study from 2013 that predicted 1050 C valve temperatures. By contrast they said that their 1000 hp V6 from the 80s reached 1100 C. I'll try to find the reference if people are interested.

While the seats can probably be a good 500 C cooler than the valve I still wonder if they are man enough to survive repeated contact/slippage with a valve that has a very high hardness.
How much TQ does it make though?

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:16 pm

I'm guessing NHK makes Honda's valves? If someone can make valve springs for these engine speeds they can. And NHK valves are hard as diamonds. :lol:
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Mudflap
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Mudflap » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 pm

Toyota used Aisan manufactured valves. Other companies that have supplied F1 valves include Del West and Xceldyne.
G&S are also quite popular with british high end racing engine makers.

Honda have made their own valves for the LMP1 V8 but if I had to guess I'd say they are now getting them from Aisan.
How much TQ does it make though?

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:27 am

And here was I thinking that racing valves are "Easy to make" parts.

Rodak
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Rodak » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:44 am

Mudflap wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:01 pm
Toyota used Aisan manufactured valves. Other companies that have supplied F1 valves include Del West and Xceldyne.
G&S are also quite popular with british high end racing engine makers.

Honda have made their own valves for the LMP1 V8 but if I had to guess I'd say they are now getting them from Aisan.
Are these sodium filled valves for the exhaust?

seezung
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by seezung » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:26 pm


etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by etusch » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:31 pm

İf 700 kw romour is true they are not much behind it.

loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by loner » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:58 pm

etusch wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:31 pm
İf 700 kw romour is true they are not much behind it.
they are... , thats why they keep talking about wait until half season :mrgreen:
they doing it since 2015 when they said wait until the European races :mrgreen:
wazari spec 4 in 2017 Spa and Monza :lol:
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amho
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by amho » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:15 pm

If honda can really increase power by 30-40 hp (as said previously) and more importantly improve fuel efficiency and duration of e-deployment then they can really make a significant progress in race.
Last year they were fuel saving all the time during race and once they were not fuel saving their laptime was quite competive, imagine in 2018 they don't have fuel saving for 40 laps then they can gain 25 -30 sec which makes difference...
Last edited by Steven on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Remove quote of deleted post
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toraabe
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by toraabe » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:08 pm

It is the MGU-H where Honda has to improve---

Big Mangalhit
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Big Mangalhit » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:03 pm

Since they used something like 9 ICE's and TC's I don't think MGU-H is the only thing they need to improve. Also it's hard to predict what will happen in the tests- Last year by this time everybody was saying they needed to improve energy deployment and efficiency and nobody was saying they needed to improve the oil chamber and MGU-H bearings. And yet they really needed to take care of that and almost had no teste because of such. Hopefully this year they'll start with the right foot.

techman
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by techman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:08 pm

the mguh was one of the big headaches they had in 2017 and apprantly it was build by a third party . now that honda are saying they will do everything on their own. hopefully they come up with the mgu h reliability issue fix. i reckon honda will have a decent power by mid season. hopefully enough for a marko satisfaction and redbull honda 2019.

bonjon1979
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by bonjon1979 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:58 pm

I really hope that Honda smash it this year. The last three years suggest that it might be a tall order but it would be lovely if they came with something competitive.

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:27 pm

Between Abu Dhabi and winter testing Honda will show a decent improvement. I reckon Alonso could have dipped into the 37's with the 2018 spec power unit. So 1.7 seconds off the pace instead of 2.4 seconds. Or a few tenths behind Red Bull, which is where I expect McLaren to be next year.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

McHonda
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by McHonda » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:22 pm

The problem is still that everyone else improves too. We've seen pretty consistent gaps between the EM's since mid season 2015 with only incremental gains on their target for each.

Ferrari not far from Mercedes
Renault not far from Ferrari
Honda not far from Renault

Development time is just too long with these units because of the knock on effects elsewhere and adjustments needed in just about every area of the hybrid side after each gain in combustion to get the most out of it.

We've only really seen one big jump in the entire V6 era and that had some pretty specific circumstances with Ferrari leapfrogging Renault over the winter in 2014/15 by signing Cedric Cornebois and a dozen other Mercedes engine guys while Mahle brought them TJI while conversely Renault had a complete nightmare and took a step backwards during the whole founding the works team/Red Bull feud/Illien split project in 2015. They were also pretty close to begin with, Renault's ERS putting them slightly ahead during 2014.

The current landscape doesn't offer anything close to that level of such differing climates between two teams right now so I just can't see much change to that running order without Mercedes first hitting the ceiling unfortunately, although I'd obviously love to be wrong for the sake of competition.