Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

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Big Mangalhit
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by Big Mangalhit » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:40 am

So let me get this straight. Sauber prefered to have an old engine in 2017 because changing the layout would be too much cost and hassle for them. Even tho it was only an ugrade coming from the same factory they thought they would gain more in the chassis side. But because RB is such a massive corporation they would rather build a completely different rear in 3 months, adapt balance, space, cooling etc. They would also keep on paying Renault for this mega expensive engines whilst also paying Honda and I guess some compensation to Tag Hauer (I bet they won't be happy). And all of this to change for an engine that has ZERO proof to be better than the Renault and never was. Even if test bed numbers are good Honda has a track record of getting in trouble when hitting the track, so does Renault but at least they're already paid.

Or... Could they wait and compare engines between them and Toro Rosso, with all the data they gather it will probably will be very easy to compare strengths and weaknesses, see how both develop and how reliable they ar. Then in 2019 change to Honda using the information they alraedy have about cooling and integration from STR. Probably even move some engineers to the mother plant.

I actually would like the chaos of what you're suggesting a lot more but I just don't think it's very plausible

Mat-tes
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by Mat-tes » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:44 am

After checking the sporting regulation for 2018, there seems to be some penalty for changing engine mid season, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the vocabulary there:

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110
8.3 A competitor may change the make of engine at any time during the Championship.
All points scored with an engine of different make to that which was first entered in the Championship may count (and will be aggregated) for the assessment of a commercial benefit, however such points will not count towards (nor be aggregated for) the FIA Formula One Constructors Championship.
A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA.
For the purposes of this Article 8.3, a major car manufacturer is a company whose sha
For the 2018 season, the team official entry is listed as Aston Martin Red Bull Racing with a Tag Heuer engine.
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... entry-list

If I read it properly, in the case Red Bull were to run a Honda and not a Tag Heuer in 2018, the points scored would not count for the constructor's championship, rendering the season useless in term of championship.

It's pretty much set in stone now that 2018 will be the last year for Red Bull and Renault, and although not impossible, I find it improbable that they would run a Honda engine in 2018.
F1 is a small world, last year we had heard of the existence of an aerodynamic loophole (T-wing) few weeks before any launches, so it would be surprising that zero info would have leaked of such a massive change one week ahead of the rb14 launch.

If we look at it pragmatically, sacrificing Torro Rosso for one year and spending large amount of money with Honda to basically run a test season for 2019 seems to be to the advantage of Red Bull. At the same time, if Renault did an ok job Red Bull could once again claim several victories this year, so why sacrifice this and rush a 2018 swap? To satisfy fans and piss Renault off?

Will see soon enough anyway.

FrukostScones
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by FrukostScones » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:33 am

They are not changing to a Honda PU In 2018.
I think it is just a long welcome by Red Bull. Embracing the new partner by actually doing something to foster a fruitful relationship.
Game Over! NVWSSV is here.

djones
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by djones » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:32 pm

If they are not in the hunt for any championship, I can see how they might change to a Honda for the last 3 or 4 races.

Its not like they have not done huge changes mid season before (like putting Max in the car).

Sure they will have a very hard time and it will be a real bodge to make it fit. But if it was me, I would accept gaining no points in the last few races, in a hope to then be better in 2019.

bauc
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by bauc » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:37 pm

djones wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:32 pm
If they are not in the hunt for any championship, I can see how they might change to a Honda for the last 3 or 4 races.

Its not like they have not done huge changes mid season before (like putting Max in the car).

Sure they will have a very hard time and it will be a real bodge to make it fit. But if it was me, I would accept gaining no points in the last few races, in a hope to then be better in 2019.
Why when RBR has TR for that? It makes no sense to adopt the RB14 chassis to fit a Honda PU for the last 3-4 races, not to mention the costs involved when you have your B team doing the job for you.
Fears Like Limits Are Often Just An Illusion

swarren7
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by swarren7 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Did anybody check out the video Max posted showing his new helmet? Look in the background, is that the RB14?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwjb9pX ... e=youtu.be

Vladimir
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by Vladimir » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:43 pm

RB13 show car.

dren
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by dren » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:49 pm

You guys are really reaching.

RBT supplies tech for a wide variety of things. The new Aston car, RB F1 car, TR F1 car...

RB has hinted they're going to watch Honda's progress with TR with a potential shift to Honda in the future. They won't shift mid-season. They'll have to make a decision during the season so they can take advantage of a works PU for 2019.

RB knows the performance of the Renault from last year, they'll know the performance of it this year. They'll also know the performance of the Honda this year. They'll be able to make a decision. They don't need to cram the Honda into the RB chassis later this year to make that decision.
Honda!

carisi2k
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by carisi2k » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:51 pm

Why couldn't the Honda be branded a Tag Heuer. There is nothing stating that a Tag Heuer engine has to be the Renault engine. That solves your Tag heuer sponsor conundrum as well.

skwdenyer
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by skwdenyer » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:53 pm

Is there anything to stop them running a Honda engine badged as a Tag Heuer...?

McHonda
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by McHonda » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:11 pm

Yeah,Honda.

I can already see the 'Red Bull are too embarrassed to let everyone know they're running Honda units' jokes from here. Or 'McLaren should've thought of that and re-branded them..(Insert various hilarious company names)'.

Marketing wise it's pretty poor for your already dented reputation to move to Red Bull and immediately have them re-brand your engine. You can point out why they were doing it and it was temporary until your blue in the face and it wouldn't matter, some folk still think the Tag is different to Renault and the truth seems to matter very little these days.

Not that this bat sh*t theory will ever play out in the real world anyway so it doesn't matter.

FPV GTHO
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by FPV GTHO » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:31 am

carisi2k wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:51 pm
Why couldn't the Honda be branded a Tag Heuer. There is nothing stating that a Tag Heuer engine has to be the Renault engine. That solves your Tag heuer sponsor conundrum as well.
Maybe Honda dont want thwir engine rebranded?

The current contract would be explicit in rebranding the Renault. At the very least there would be a second contract needing to be broken before Red Bull could use Hondas

carisi2k
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by carisi2k » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:09 am

How do you know what the current contract states?

carisi2k
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by carisi2k » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:28 am

If Honda understand it is for contractual reasons then why would they have a problem. From all accounts the new Honda is more powerful then the Renault already and should be around Ferrari performance by middle of the year.

makecry
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Re: Red Bull RB14 Speculation Thread

Post by makecry » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:35 am

carisi2k wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:28 am
If Honda understand it is for contractual reasons then why would they have a problem. From all accounts the new Honda is more powerful then the Renault already and should be around Ferrari performance by middle of the year.
LOL, how exactly do you know this? This thread is comical at best.