General Honda F1 Topic

[HPD]

Just a simple question for everyone,
Who do you see winning a championship first.
Mclaren or Honda.

Possibly HONDA.
But for a reason, and it's Red Bull. Red Bull already has a winning chassis, it only needs a good engine.

In comparison with Mclaren, they have a good chassis, but that is still far from the best.

Red Bull only needs a good engine.
Mclaren needs to improve chassis + engine. It has more complicated

[bauc]

Just a simple question for everyone,
Who do you see winning a championship first.
Mclaren or Honda.

Possibly HONDA.
But for a reason, and it's Red Bull. Red Bull already has a winning chassis, it only needs a good engine.

In comparison with Mclaren, they have a good chassis, but that is still far from the best.

Red Bull only needs a good engine.
Mclaren needs to improve chassis + engine. It has more complicated

Well while the above is somewhat true, we should all take into consideration that this regulations will last only for another 3 seasons, so my question is will this be enough time for Honda to put a PU equivalent or better than Mercedes/Ferrari taking into the account that there are speculations going on that Mercedes is yet again changing the architecture of their PU and they are expecting another 50 bhp gain in the next (2019) season.

[Nonserviam85]

Both don't stand a chance. I'm still amazed how people could even say a thing like that after three years of failing and complete Mercedes domination. How about seeing some actual progress from Honda before talking about championships. Keep underestimating Mercedes, because it would all change in 2017 right? It's delusional. Earlier this month Verstappen already said that the others wouldn't see them if they were running Mercedes power, it exactly shows their arrogance. Let's see how they will perform with these new suspension rules. If Honda was serious about F1 they should have hired staff from the other teams, like Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. Honda has a history of failing and those comments about improving in the second half of the season already seem like a story that we've been hearing for the last couple of years.

It's already been confirmed for a very long time that Honda has actually been hiring staff from other teams. Can we please stop with this argument?

Actually no, because they haven't. Some consultancy isn't even comparable. Secondly, they even declined help from Mercedes.

You sound very confident, do you know someone from Honda's HR department?

[techman]

Possibly HONDA.
But for a reason, and it's Red Bull. Red Bull already has a winning chassis, it only needs a good engine.

In comparison with Mclaren, they have a good chassis, but that is still far from the best.

Red Bull only needs a good engine.
Mclaren needs to improve chassis + engine. It has more complicated

i agree i believe honda will pass renault for power and also get reliability by end of 2018 and 2019 with the best chassis redbull and their better drivers compared to mclaren. so yes redbull honda has a better chance to win title more than mclaren. renault also wants to win so mclaren will just be another customer team

[bosyber]

Well, not to linger on Red Bull too much, but let's not forget that both in 2014 and in 2017 (albeit with new regulations), they didn't just suffer from engine issues, the chassis also took until after barcelona/halfway of the season to get good. McLaren has been in the dumps, but they improved their aero work a lot in the last two seasons. Let's see how Ferrari, Mercedes have developed, I don't think it impossible Red Bull loses the plot again at some point.

To get back to Honda, yes I do think that, provided they get it working this year, they will overhaul Renault, who seem to be slow to develop. Would be ironic if Red Bull Honda managed to win from McLaren Renault mainly based on the power of the engine.

[kptaylor]

Well, first it's apples and oranges. Honda is an engine supplier and McLaren is a racing team. If you want to compare PUs then it's Honda vs Renault (not Renault, McLaren, Red Bull), Ferrari (not Ferrari, Haas, Sauber) and Merc (not Mercedes, Williams, Force India). And in 2018 (this season) it's STR Honda not Red Bull Honda. What we'd want to compare is STR Honda versus McLaren Renault and/or McLaren Renault versus Renault & Red Bull.

But back on the topic of Honda, let's wait for the first filming day and the first day of testing. No other info will be leaking out since both STR and Honda are still in the newlywed stage. Clock is ticking down to test #1!

[godlameroso]

10 days till the first test.

[etusch]

Well, first it's apples and oranges. Honda is an engine supplier and McLaren is a racing team. If you want to compare PUs then it's Honda vs Renault (not Renault, McLaren, Red Bull), Ferrari (not Ferrari, Haas, Sauber) and Merc (not Mercedes, Williams, Force India). And in 2018 (this season) it's STR Honda not Red Bull Honda. What we'd want to compare is STR Honda versus McLaren Renault and/or McLaren Renault versus Renault & Red Bull.

But back on the topic of Honda, let's wait for the first filming day and the first day of testing. No other info will be leaking out since both STR and Honda are still in the newlywed stage. Clock is ticking down to test #1!

I always thought that packing also has affect on engine reliability. If we had two Honda powered team we can compare affect of this but we hadn't. I believe, with STH, honda engine will be more reliable because of second season of architecture and a bit from packing of STH. I wonder most STH car's performance, Honda engine power and Honda's mgu-h.

[Joseki]

Just a simple question for everyone,

Who do you see winning a championship first.

Mclaren or Honda.

2018 is very unlikely for both. 2019 and 2020 could see Red Bull Honda, while Mclaren will still be a customer to Renault. And with the Enstone team always growing stronger, Renault will surely take little or no input from Mclaren on PU specs ect

I don't see any team beating both Mercedes and Ferrari with the current rules, sadly.

[ME4ME]

I don't see any team beating both Mercedes and Ferrari with the current rules, sadly.

On ultimate pace I agree that is rather unlikely. However, Red Bull might be in with a shot for the WCC having two top drivers rather than one. Especially Ferrari should be under some pressure.

[etusch]

I don't see any reason for that. I think if rules stay same it's just a matter of time. For example 2019 Redbull Honda WCC

[NathanOlder]

Seems like most people think Honda will win a championship before Mclaren will then.

[McHonda]

Not really a surprise though is it? As an EM they have more choices and a bigger bank than McLaren do as a chassis builder. They absolutely should win before McLaren can, Macca can't force the best EM's to supply them,indeed we know they won't, while if Honda deliver the best engine there will be Red Bull,Williams,McLaren and Force India begging for supply and/or works status and with Honda's added finance they could win with any one of them.

McLaren need to build the best chassis by a good distance and/or have far and away the best driver to win without the outright best engine.(And a big dollop of luck)

Who would you back?

[HPD]

Unfortunately, I do not think Honda or Renault can have a better PU than Mercedes.

This is where I remember Marko words, he said they do not need the best engine. They need an engine that is not so far from Mercedes, and recover that lost time on the side of the chassis.

[bigblue]

Need a solid upgrade on last year at the start of the season, and then further progress to catch Renault. Would be very surprised if Renault are caught soon. Every year in the off-season everyone assumes their team will overtake the immediate opposition, but in reality it usually takes time. Quite happy to be proven wrong though

Not much news at the moment. Saw this on the skyf1 website

"I know that the STR engineers are very excited by the Honda and what its architecture allows them to do," tweeted Sky F1 analyst Mark Hughes. "One of them described it as a 'higher tec' engine than the Renault."

Pretty unspecific, and who knows, but I guess it makes us feel a little better !