General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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lio007
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 23:03
Location: Austria

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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HPD wrote:
18 Feb 2018, 00:22
Unfortunately, I do not think Honda or Renault can have a better PU than Mercedes.

This is where I remember Marko words, he said they do not need the best engine. They need an engine that is not so far from Mercedes, and recover that lost time on the side of the chassis.
Regarding Marko's words: it depends in the magnitude of deficit. We finally have git some numbers in the recent AMuS-interview. Marko said a deficit of about 15HP can be compensated, but not something in the region of 50HP.

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bigblue
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Joined: 01 Oct 2014, 12:18

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While we wait for the 21st (shakedown day), and testing shortly afterwards, here's a short article to cheer up Honda fans. Remember the good old days ? This one's about the 1988 2.5bar turbo engine - the constraints it had to meet, and what was done to meet them. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ast-hurrah.

The smaller combustion chamber also made it more feasible to increase the compression ratio in an attempt to begin clawing back in revs what it had lost in boost. It jumped from 7.4:1 to 9.4:1, helping it run to a maximum of 14,000rpm compared to the big-bore 4-bar’s 12,000rpm.
There are some more technical tidbits in the article, for those interested.

63l8qrrfy6
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Joined: 17 Feb 2016, 21:36

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Thanks bigblue - if anyone happens to have a copy of that SAE 890877 paper I am willing to barter similar publications.

Talisman
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Joined: 30 Dec 2017, 01:37

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Can't help with that paper but this link might be helpful for third era technical info:

https://www.hondarandd.jp/summary.php?sid=23&lang=en

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etusch
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Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

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This is from motogp news on motorsport.com. it looks like Honda reorganize its aproach at every category
Different atmosphere at Honda
Despite his reservations about the latest-spec engine, Marquez said he was satisfied with how well the Honda factory has reacted to his requests.

“The good thing, and [what] makes me happy, is the factory is working really quick this year," said the 25-year-old. "I feel the atmosphere is different and this is something important.”

Pedrosa also complimented the “positive” development inside the Honda team and the decision to bring in top management from Japan to the test.

“The feeling goes direct, the reaction timings are much better, you can understand a lot more of the things and you can have quicker answers as well," he explained.

"Honda is developing, and I think we are all working good in the team.”

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dren
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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I wonder if that has spilled over from their F1 project or if it is just an unrelated improvement.
Honda!

McMika98
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Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Looking like its another long season for Honda, Renault appears to have found an extra step on the engine and claiming over 950hp. Given that Honda didnt even get to 900 last year, its going to be painful watch. Was hoping they could be near the top. [-o<
All those gains cited by Mclaren maybe is true. RedBull dont see Honda catching Renault in the first half of the season and at the same time admit that Merc is untouchable in terms of engine power. Guess the dream for power will continue.

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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I must say, the Renault in dannyrics testrit sounded totally different then last year, not only the drive off but there is now also a short clip on YouTube with the Ricceroo making Some speed on the circuit. Could it really be?

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etusch
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Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
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We will see what everyone made soon. I hope Honda achieved 700 kw. This kept them in touch with renault. If Honda could keep 10 kg lighter pu and if could make it more efficient compared last season this also can make advantage from point of hp per kg. They have second engine update. So there is nothing to worry in theory. But tests will tell us truth

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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McMika98 wrote:
20 Feb 2018, 20:53
Looking like its another long season for Honda, Renault appears to have found an extra step on the engine and claiming over 950hp. Given that Honda didnt even get to 900 last year, its going to be painful watch. Was hoping they could be near the top. [-o<
All those gains cited by Mclaren maybe is true. RedBull dont see Honda catching Renault in the first half of the season and at the same time admit that Merc is untouchable in terms of engine power. Guess the dream for power will continue.
yet there are big question marks over both Merc and Ferrari, as the rules have become violently stricter in regards to 'oil burning' or using oil as 'fuel', a trick Ferrari and surely Mercedes also used - which could have quite the impact on the Merc engine. They also said they did quite some work on their engine too for 2018, undoubtedly because of those stricter rules. It thus remains to be seen whether Mercedes has been able to 'improve' at all engine-wise. I'm sure they haven't lost power, but they might have had to do such overhauls and 'compromises' also in the face of 'reliability' that they are 'stuck' in what they had last year where the competition has gotten closer.

perhaps.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

McMika98
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Joined: 18 Feb 2017, 22:40

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Manoah2u wrote:
20 Feb 2018, 21:20
yet there are big question marks over both Merc and Ferrari, as the rules have become violently stricter in regards to 'oil burning' or using oil as 'fuel', a trick Ferrari and surely Mercedes also used - which could have quite the impact on the Merc engine. They also said they did quite some work on their engine too for 2018, undoubtedly because of those stricter rules. It thus remains to be seen whether Mercedes has been able to 'improve' at all engine-wise. I'm sure they haven't lost power, but they might have had to do such overhauls and 'compromises' also in the face of 'reliability' that they are 'stuck' in what they had last year where the competition has gotten closer.

perhaps.

I stand to be corrected, the oil burn affected Ferrari more than Merc and only really applied during quali magic modes. In race trim, Merc were comfortably in 950 region last year and with no reliability concern. At the same time they were running close to 1000hp in dynos already so expect that to translate into this years engine. This bit is what is keeping the likes of Dr Marko from quelling down hopes for title this year as they know Merc proved engine reliability last year while it has been the focus of all other manufacturers

GhostF1
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016, 04:11

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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McMika98 wrote:
20 Feb 2018, 20:53
Looking like its another long season for Honda, Renault appears to have found an extra step on the engine and claiming over 950hp. Given that Honda didnt even get to 900 last year, its going to be painful watch. Was hoping they could be near the top. [-o<
All those gains cited by Mclaren maybe is true. RedBull dont see Honda catching Renault in the first half of the season and at the same time admit that Merc is untouchable in terms of engine power. Guess the dream for power will continue.
We'll have to wait and see. If Honda made the jump to over 940hp like what some rumours have been suggesting and Renault are claiming 950ish for 2018, then it's fair to assume Honda have just jumped the 2017 Renault. So the "gap" this year at the start might not be as large as first thought.. Hopefully TR bring out a cracking car!

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HPD
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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First official words of Tanabe. (Sorry for the translation, is what I could get)

Image

Yamaguchi: I think I'm busy preparing back to F1. I was appointed in January, but after taking office I think that it was difficult to move between Toro Rosso of Japan and Italy.
Tanabe: We visited the Toro Rosso Factory several times and we are working on detailed preparations for power unit mounting, technical meeting on annual plan, and race / test operation. At the same time, I frequently share the development situation of HRD 's Sakura with the off - season at video conference etc, and I am being forced to prepare for the off - season Barcelona test.

Yamaguchi: The predecessor of Toro Rosso, Mr. Tanabe is Minardi in the second phase. To be honest, it is not a top team right now, but it was a very familiar team that gained a deeper understanding of the essence of motor racing, but what kind of image did you have for Mr. Tanabe's then Minardi?
Tanabe: From the latter half of 1980 to the early 1990 Honda F1 In the second phase of the era, there are memories of the Minardi team remaining in memory. I forgot which race, but we also won the day and a dinner party, a so-called celebration, but it happened to be with the Minardi team members at that restaurant.

Yamaguchi: To Honda 's celebration, we were invited frequently by voice of Mr. Sakurai Shoshitoshi who appointed himself as general director in the second period.
Tanabe: That's it (laugh).

Yamaguchi: So you met Minardi.
Tanabe: Every member of Minardi was drinking, eating, singing and dancing all very well. At that time, for me who was desperate enough to keep winning, I thought that it would be enviable for everyone to enjoy so much to enter F1 with the question that why I could live like that whilst I lost it I remembered that.

Yamaguchi: Indeed, Minardi was such a team.
Tanabe: After that, in the third period of 1991 when I had to absence from work due to the limitation of the number of business days, I took a mini-tour of the Hungarian GP in private, so I took the Minardi's hospitality and moved the Minardi I had me for me. Strangely, it was also a mourning race of Mr. Soichiro Honda, pasta was delicious as was rumored (laugh).

Yamaguchi: What kind of impression did Toro Rosso visit with such memories?
Tanabe: It was impressive that people worked lively with reasonable size factory.

Yamaguchi: What is moderate size?
Tanabe: Specifically, it is difficult, but it is not too wide, not too narrow, is it a bit dense? : People were working in the area that I thought was.

Yamaguchi: Were the geographical situation of Faenza, home of Toro Rosso, and meals, etc. still "traditional" as it was?
Tanabe: Of course we have a short distance from our UK office in England, but it is conveniently close from Bologna airport. I had a delicious Italian lunch at the office, but unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to eat at the restaurant in the city.

Yamaguchi: From the Minardi era, Ayrton Senna came to eat pasta, or it was reputed that espresso is delicious, but what kind of impression did it make as a base of fighting as it keeps it (laugh)?
Tanabe: As I mentioned earlier, each section was efficiently placed in the factory, and it seemed that people who are visible a little cramped are worked organic and without waste. Surely, I felt that good things would not be created.

Yamaguchi: Was the atmosphere of the Toro Rosso factory good?
Tanabe: In the design and engineering room, several people seemed to work jointly and efficiently at workplaces where things are being built or assembled while communicating with others.

Yamaguchi: How about comparing the size and mood of the American IndyCar team with F1?
Tanabe: As you know, IndyCar is a one-make use of Dallara's chassis, the team does not make monocoque or big aero parts, so the factory equipment / scale of the F1 team is larger than that , Others seemed not to be so different from IndyCar's top level factory, such as Chip Ganassi etc.

Yamaguchi: Have you met Jamus Kee, Technical Director of Toro Rosso?
Tanabe: Yes, at the technical meeting in Faenza I mentioned earlier, he himself met several times, such as visiting our office in Milton Keynes.

Yamaguchi: What kind of impression do you have?
Tanabe: It is a very easy-to-talk person. I am able to talk about technical matters in detail.

Yamaguchi: What is Franz Tosto, the team representative?
Tanabe: Even Tosto has already seen it several times. I strongly felt the commitment to strengthen my team to participate in Formula One from that word. I also deal with Honda very cooperatively.

Yamaguchi: What kind of impression do you have?
Tanabe: There is no weapon, it is a fun story talking. I feel Honda is very favorably accepted.

Yamaguchi: Were Toro Rosso as impressive as the whole team?
Tanabe: Initially we will combine power units newly, but regarding the installation in general, we do not say "disgusting" as easy as possible, we clarify each other's requirements and decide the best combat strength specification I told you to go, I got a positive & flexible impression.

Yamaguchi: As a general image, if McLaren is 10, I think Toro Rosso seems to have about 7 team power, but in reality, how about the Toro Rosso potential?
Tanabe: This time, I am not talking about current McLaren and I can not say anything because I have just started dating with Toro Rosso.

Yamaguchi: The atmosphere is nice, and. From now on, it seems to be a good relationship.
Tanabe: Yes, I feel like that, or already a good relationship has started.

Yamaguchi: Of course, I guess Toro Rosso is superb in terms of passion, but I think there are some things that is not enough. Where is Mr. Tanabe as a position of Honda not enough for Toro Rosso's strength and what kind of place can be supplemented? For example, I think that there are places where you can accommodate such as Sakura facilities.
Tanabe: In addition to Sakura, including Milton Keynes at UK office, we think that it is very useful to promote development with flexibility such as facilities. We have already started verification tests of their gear boxes and our PUs together. I also want to strengthen collaboration on other sides.

Yamaguchi: What exactly is the specific collaboration on the other side?
Tanabe: Well, everything (laugh).

Yamaguchi: By the way, this year, the number of power units used annually will be tightened from four to three.
Tanabe: Since the number of races will be 21 from last year's 20 races, it will be tougher.

Yamaguchi: Indeed, as it gets even harder.
Tanabe: But I'd like to look forward to having a challenge in a difficult place, being Honda.

Yamaguchi: In the turbo era of the second term, as the supercharging pressure is restricted, if Sogaki Shoshitoshi, then coach at the time reports that Mr. Souichiro will become more and more strict, Mr. Soichiro said " So, if Mr. Sakurai smiled and answered that it was not such a thing, Mr. Souichiro said that it was a chance, "is not it? I thought that was exactly Honda.
Tanabe: It's not easy, but I think that the hardest part for us is the hardware configuration and management of complicated PUs. So, we are challenging Honda there. There is also a background that regulations' technical hurdles took part in late participation. Although we are pursuing development by overtaking, it is not so simple as the preceding group also does not loose the hands of development.

Yamaguchi: We are forecasting that Guthrie is 7th and Hartley is 12th in the opening round qualifying (laugh).
Tanabe: Will it be so easy? (Laugh).

Yamaguchi: Anyway, is that it is waiting for the opening round with a good relationship with Toro Rosso? In the opening round, Guthrie and Hartley are doing a good race, and we hope that Toro Rosso · Honda can all be smiling. Thank you very much.
Tanabe: Thank you very much. I will do my best to meet expectations.

http://f1-stinger2.com/f1_news/20180219 ... orintervew
http://f1-stinger2.com/f1_news/20180220 ... ectorpart2

techman
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Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 10:25

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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i reckon honda will overtake renault by mid season. already marko was quoted on saying that they will most likely go with honda. its good to hear. hopefully redbull honda 2019. rumour suggest honda 940bhp which is decent and will only get better. honda development through the season is faster than renualts

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Renault is at a rumoured 950hp right now.. so it will be tough.
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