2018 pre-season testing thread

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan
348
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:30 pm

Mr.G wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:49 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:47 pm
GoranF1 wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:58 pm
Last day of testing

https://twitter.com/alo_pumpa/status/97 ... 76166?s=19
Hamilton's very low top speed indicative of a driver backing off on the main straight aka sandbagging?
Or driving to a delta...
Perhaps but that usually involves driving the whole lap slightly slowly. By backing off hard on the straight, you kill the lap time but still get to drive quickly in the corners. That gives better simulation of tyre wear, stresses on the car etc.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

Just_a_fan
348
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:32 pm

zac510 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:57 pm
Interesting conversation topic.
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:46 pm
I wonder if the burn outs were a way of trying to simulate very worn tyres by, well, wearing them out quickly. Perhaps trying to see what the drop off in performance was and whether they can make a very tired tyre last. Can't see why else you would do it, to be honest.
Especially when fronts would not be worn equally. You'd just end up with an imbalanced set of tyres, maybe not representative of a real set of tyres that have done a stint.
Depends on whether your car is front or rear limited in terms of wear. Perhaps they're trying to see whether they have inherited last season's rear tyre issues.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

JonoNic
9
User avatar
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:54 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by JonoNic » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:34 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mr.G wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:49 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:47 pm
Hamilton's very low top speed indicative of a driver backing off on the main straight aka sandbagging?
Or driving to a delta...
Perhaps but that usually involves driving the whole lap slightly slowly. By backing off hard on the straight, you kill the lap time but still get to drive quickly in the corners. That gives better simulation of tyre wear, stresses on the car etc.
Lift and coast is normally used to save fuel. Wouldn't driving slightly slower have the same effect and therefore skewing information that teams are receiving?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Always find the gap then use it.

PhillipM
179
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by PhillipM » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:04 pm

I would imagine Merc were more trying to see what sort of heat cycling the US needed for best tyre life, and probably grip at the start - as it looks like they're intent on using quite a few.

Mr.G
33
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:52 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Mr.G » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:53 pm

JonoNic wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:34 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mr.G wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:49 pm

Or driving to a delta...
Perhaps but that usually involves driving the whole lap slightly slowly. By backing off hard on the straight, you kill the lap time but still get to drive quickly in the corners. That gives better simulation of tyre wear, stresses on the car etc.
Lift and coast is normally used to save fuel. Wouldn't driving slightly slower have the same effect and therefore skewing information that teams are receiving?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
No, as this is Mercedes and such think is not acceptable by the public opinion :) If Mercedes is lifting it must be sandbagging or something secret :D
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

Vanja #66
303
User avatar
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm
Location: BGD, SRB

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Vanja #66 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:28 pm

Blistering on tyres caused by rolling burnout is also, in a way, a message to Pirelli - look what's happening, don't bring them to races too often. It wouldn't be the first time for Mercedes to put pressure on Pirelli. In 2013 Red Bull and Mercedes had fast cars, but also cars which chewed their tyres faster than opposition (Ferrari and Lotus). From the first winter test those 2 teams kept saying tyres need to change, until excessive tyre defects eventually made Pirelli change tyre construction (and compounds I think, not sure).

As first races showed, Ferrari and Lotus were able to nurse their tyres a lot better than than rival teams, so Merc and Red Bull stepped on it even more. Pirelli's tyres were awful at the time, it goes without saying. But the pressure to change them by those two teams was immense and came from poor results. After the change in tyre construction, only Red Bull and Mercedes won races, with Ferrari and Lotus barely reaching a podium from time to time. Alonso won 2 races before this tyre change, with unfortunate races in Malaysia and Bahrain where he would have been in the fight as well.

Just something to include in this discussion, this is not something new for Mercedes at all.

ema00
7
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:13 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by ema00 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:32 pm

TAG wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:00 pm
In the better late than never department:

There were a few times that we heard over the testing days that Mercedes were doing "rolling burnouts" driving through pit lane and I wanted to discuss this since it was never delved deeper into. Now I have a very good idea at what a rolling burnout is, why a team would do that (only Mercedes) is open for debate, but we saw lots and lots of pictures with the Merc's tires absolutely blistered to the brink.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2F ... .jpg&w=570

So my thought of what a rolling burnout is; Mercedes in the middle of a stint would pit and then launch through the lane, doing the same kinds of burnout we all grew up as kids doings. Is my interpretation of this off base? In the years I've been following the sport I've never heard is reported of a team doing something like this.

I ask, because the tire choices per driver for Melbourne are released now and the tea leaves are ripe for the reading.
maybe Vettel has the answer


Parlando di gomme, il “blistering” potrebbe essere un problema?

“Penso sia normale che, dopo i primi giorni di test, ogni squadra cerchi di portare il fornitore di gomme nella direzione che più si adatta alla propria vettura. Da parte nostra, pensiamo che la Pirelli abbia fatto un buon lavoro con la sua gamma di mescole”.

G: Talking about tyres, could blistering be a problem?

SV: I think that, after a few days of test, is normal for each team to try to bring Pirelli on the way that better suits to its car

Mr.G
33
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:52 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Mr.G » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:24 pm

I've recently read an article, where Vettel was pointing out that Mercedes during the race simulation used only medium tyres and not two different types of tyres as mandatory in race. Isn't this something that should be represented in the analyses that tray to find the pecking order?
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

marmer
18
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:48 am

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by marmer » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:03 pm

Could it just be a case of getting hear into the tyre due to colder than normal temperature at least for the first test

dans79
132
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by dans79 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:05 pm

Mr.G wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:24 pm
I've recently read an article, where Vettel was pointing out that Mercedes during the race simulation used only medium tyres and not two different types of tyres as mandatory in race. Isn't this something that should be represented in the analyses that tray to find the pecking order?
If you go back and look several of us took that into account with are calculations.

atanatizante
23
User avatar
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by atanatizante » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:09 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:46 pm
I wonder if the burn outs were a way of trying to simulate very worn tyres by, well, wearing them out quickly. Perhaps trying to see what the drop off in performance was and whether they can make a very tired tyre last. Can't see why else you would do it, to be honest.
I`ve read that Lewis run all day long without DRS on ...
This could be right coz delta speed - between switch on and off DRS - is somewhere at 20km/h on average, hence 308 + 20 means 328 which is 6 km/h less than what Bottas did with his top speed of 334 km/h ...
Maybe the latter was running with DRS, maybe he had a slip stream or maybe even his RW has had a slighter lower AoA for higher top speed ... other strat mode is out of the question ...

What about PU endurance test?
For 7 weekends they could reach almost 5400km or so, had I`m not wrong on my calculation ... and Merc team only did 3800km or so in those 8 days ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

HPD
204
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:06 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by HPD » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:31 pm

Nothing more to say.. :arrow:
First, let's take a look at the absolute top speeds. Mercedes leads the ranking with 334.3 km / h.

At the other end of the table is McLaren. We are used to that. But can not point to Honda with his finger. The papaya-yellow cars are powered by Renault engines. That leaves only the conclusion that the McLaren MCL33 is fully designed for contact pressure.

Fernando Alonso drove the peak of 317.6 km / h at the conclusion of his round of cheating when he shortened the chicane. In his fastest lap of 1.17,784 minutes Alonso was measured with 315.7 km / h. The Spaniard was traveling with open DRS. That's all his McLaren gave.

Toro Rosso landed with 324.3 km / h in good midfield. So bad can not be the Honda engine so. Also Pierre Gasly's 287.2 km / h on the finish line can be seen. Honda has not only made his drive more stable, but on stronger.

Therefore, we compared the two values of the four engine manufacturers on the lap in which the highest speeds were determined. As already mentioned, the delta is a good indicator of how much the electric drive contributes to overall performance. Ferrari won 56.7 km / h. More than Mercedes, which have brought it to 53.1 km / h.

Renault lies with a 54.5 km / h Delta in between. Readout at Verstappens record of Thursday with 327.2 km / h at the end of the home straight and 272.7 km / h on the finish line. That was more realistic than his Monday show. Even Honda is not miles away with a difference of 50.2 km / h. What proves: Electrically, the opponents of Mercedes have caught up.

More: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... isch%29%29

Joseki
56
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:30 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Joseki » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:14 pm

Max Verstappen Red Bull 331,2 km/h 285,5 km/h 45,7 km/h

Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull 318,5 km/h 284,2 km/h 34,3 km/h
Fernando Alonso McLaren 317,6 km/h 286,4 km/h 31,2 km/h

Big Tea
32
User avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by Big Tea » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:20 pm

This last couple of years Hamilton has been complaining about his tyres, balance etc, could Merc be testing some sort of self compensating device/system for tyre problems?
Could be the best way to get a random unbalanced tyre is to blister them?

If they are trying to compensate for random but repetitive problems would this be as good a way as any?
Can I make a 3D printer on my 3D printer?

TAG
74
User avatar
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: in a good place

Re: 2018 pre-season testing thread

Post by TAG » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:49 pm

I'm reading a lot of conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated claims, not really the way to answer a question certainly not really a way to further a logical reason based discussion.

Last year's tire issue with Mercedes had everything to do with the FRIC suspension being banned before the beginning of the season. Mercedes clearly got around those issues to some degree in the second part of the season, but they still suffered in colder temps and in tracks that required high downforce.

If anyone thinks that Mercedes wouldn't have spent the entire development season coming up with ways to mitigate what proved to be the car's only flaw, you are underestimating the team's ability by a long shot.

Lastly, I'll leave you guys this this, James Allison has a long history making F1 cars that are gentle on tires. Kimi's owes the last win of his career to him. I'm thinking Mercedes will go longer on tires this year than any other team, and they'll have gotten rid of all of the mulligan circuits they struggled with last year. We won't have long to wait to see which way this turns out.
"party mode" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯