The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

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zac510
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by zac510 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:45 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:24 pm
zac510 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:58 pm
In statistical terms that's why we have more than one race in a season, so that one or two first corner incidents in a season is less likely to ruin a driver's chance at winning the championship than if there were, say, 3 races in a championship.
You only have 3 PUs though, so you can get hosed through no fault of your own, simply because someone ran into you and damaged your PU. I don't think the rules have anything about free PU components that are damaged in accidents do they?
That's the point - if you lost one power unit then start 10 places back in the next race you may get few points in those 2 races, but there are still 18-19 races remaining.

dans79
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by dans79 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:54 pm

zac510 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:45 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:24 pm
zac510 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:58 pm
In statistical terms that's why we have more than one race in a season, so that one or two first corner incidents in a season is less likely to ruin a driver's chance at winning the championship than if there were, say, 3 races in a championship.
You only have 3 PUs though, so you can get hosed through no fault of your own, simply because someone ran into you and damaged your PU. I don't think the rules have anything about free PU components that are damaged in accidents do they?
That's the point - if you lost one power unit then start 10 places back in the next race you may get few points in those 2 races, but there are still 18-19 races remaining.
Doesn't matter when everyone is almost perfectly reliable. The only way you can come back from an issue like this is if your opponents have a similar issue.

Sieper
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by Sieper » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:03 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:37 pm
Sieper wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:31 pm
That could damage a gearbox but a PU? Very unlikely, Yes the cooling system will get easily damaged but then again, you will be stopped, or stop yourself If the temperatures run up.
watch Hamilton go right up the back of Grosjean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Y5Co1kZjQ
Awesome crash, part of the adreline F1 is, this seems like an advertisement for the halo by the way. But PU damage in a crash is very unlikely still, gearbox is much much more at risk.
Last edited by Sieper on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jolle
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by Jolle » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:20 pm

Someone still miffed about Singapore? I think Vettel showed that he is even worse in rolling starts then standing ones :D

Manoah2u
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by Manoah2u » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:44 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:20 pm
Another "let's change F1 for no real reason" thread.

No, we don't need to change the start procedure or the first corner.
Agreed.
...
First corner start crashes are part of the sport and it's allure and driver capabilities.
...
Last edited by Steven on Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed personal comments
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NathanOlder
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:00 pm

Maybe lap 1 is run under "ghost car" conditions. So you can't crash on the first lap. You just drive through another car.

One thing i did think of during the last 2 pages was, the grid is spaced out according to time differences in qualifying. The pole driver starts on the line, and the speed he crossed the line is the speed used to space the cars. Wider grids would be needed for sure, but if the top 4 qualified within 1 tenth, the start would be almost side by side..... but that would probably result in more crashes at the start , d'oh!
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strad
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by strad » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:20 pm

Some solutions may be redesigning those first corners
.
I admit I haven't read all your solutions, but the way I see it is the same as other problems..... Hold the up and coming drivers to a higher standard. Insist from karting on that they comport themselves better.
Anymore, from the time they are kids in karts they are allowed and taught to drive rough.
Much of the problem is the high level of safety where they can get away with smashing and crashing.
Open wheelers aren't supposed to resemble NASCAR, BTCC, and V8 Supercar in their driving style.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Manoah2u
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by Manoah2u » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:26 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:00 pm
Maybe lap 1 is run under "ghost car" conditions. So you can't crash on the first lap. You just drive through another car.

One thing i did think of during the last 2 pages was, the grid is spaced out according to time differences in qualifying. The pole driver starts on the line, and the speed he crossed the line is the speed used to space the cars. Wider grids would be needed for sure, but if the top 4 qualified within 1 tenth, the start would be almost side by side..... but that would probably result in more crashes at the start , d'oh!
turn it time trial racing rally style. return of the time when qually runs were made with 1 car on the track 1 chance. instead of qually, that'll be the race. 20 cars, normal race is what, 60 laps, then every car gets 3 laps. the meridian of 3 laps will be the net end result classification.

they'll only get a mandated amount of fuel for the 3 laps. no drs neccesary. saves a lot of fuel so green and environmental, no danger for car collision, no flying wheel danger, saves a lot of money.

hell why not scrap f1 alltogether!
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

dans79
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by dans79 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:27 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:44 pm
people need to stop ruining the sport through completely unbased, illogic and badly thought 'ideas' which attract the attention from 'opinion researchers' whom themselves are nothing but bored people that found some market nobody needs or was waiting for but are good at fooling people through confusing numbers and figures and 'elaborate works'.
Defining ruining?

I call idiotic drivers wrecking another out, a good way to ruin a season. For example in the video I posted above Alonso was taken out, by no fault of his own. If he had scored 4 points in the race, he would have taken the WDC, assuming Vettel still had his first lap accident in Brazil (senna rearending him).

Just_a_fan
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:03 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:27 pm

Alonso was taken out, by no fault of his own.
The only one at fault in all of that shunt was Grosjean. He was punished for it and, it seems, has improved since then.

These sort of point loss incidents are part of racing. Just like Hamilton's loss of 25 points when his engine blew in the lead in 2016.
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dans79
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by dans79 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:13 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:03 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:27 pm

Alonso was taken out, by no fault of his own.
The only one at fault in all of that shunt was Grosjean. He was punished for it and, it seems, has improved since then.

These sort of point loss incidents are part of racing. Just like Hamilton's loss of 25 points when his engine blew in the lead in 2016.
You missed the point! And Hamilton in 2016 is not a good example, as it's not in an way similar.

Just_a_fan
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:40 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:13 pm

You missed the point! And Hamilton in 2016 is not a good example, as it's not in an way similar.
The point is that racing is not without "luck" (fortune, karma, whatever term people prefer). Alonso was "unlucky", Hamilton was "unlucky". Neither did anything wrong, both lost out.

Indeed, the rules used to have a "luck" factor in them by allowing certain results to be dropped from the reckoning. Drivers won titles then too - ironically because they were allowed to drop results. If all the races were counted, others would have been champion.

It's just part of the game. Try to change it and you affect something else instead and someone else might lose out.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

strad
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Re: The need for reduction of first corner start crashes

Post by strad » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:51 pm

I think if ya spaced out the grid it would just give them a chance to gain more speed before turn one and create more chaos.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss