2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
De Jokke
3
User avatar
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:51 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by De Jokke » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:22 pm

quietly banned?, if they found out they would have been disqualified. So gossip.
The smoking Ferraris seem more suspicious to me as they not only are fastest in a straight line but now also have the fastest car after Melbourne, very strange.....
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!

marvin78
9
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:33 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by marvin78 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:25 pm

Strange is, that some people believe, that oil would burn in bright white color.

PhillipM
179
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by PhillipM » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:29 pm

It would be at that temperature with the ultra thin oils used, yes.
More strange is that people make random statements like that on a technical site with no reasoning behind it.

marvin78
9
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:33 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by marvin78 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:34 pm

To my mind there are more explanations for the smoke than just oil burning. AND most of these explanations are more likely as the oil burning (I always go with ockham's razor). That is not to be explained in every post AND it does not belong in this thread.

F1Krof
42
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by F1Krof » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:50 pm

W09 is the first heavily influenced James Allison car. They've left the concept going for a higher rake and they believed having the "tyre" guru designing their car would benefit them. Obviously not at all. It's like Diva has reincarnated, and it's whinier than ever. However you cannot take something from them, that being that they've really developed their car, they've done a tremendous job at developing their Diva into a greater Diva, good job really! I've said it hundreds of times James Allison is overrated. If he'd be any good, Ferrari would have kept him for sure. They shouldn't have left Paddy go anywhere. They should bring him back.

De Jokke
3
User avatar
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:51 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by De Jokke » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:29 pm

Paddy isn't setting the world alight at Williams either...
If he had any sense, he would have talked claire out of hiring Sirotkin instead of kubica to start with.
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!

F1Krof
42
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by F1Krof » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:43 pm

De Jokke wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:29 pm
Paddy isn't setting the world alight at Williams either...
If he had any sense, he would have talked claire out of hiring Sirotkin instead of kubica to start with.
As for his Job at Williams, yes true he isn't doing much, but you have to account for a wide array of circumstances. Different team, different philosophy, different equipment, DIFFERENT BUDGET, different team GOALS, also it's his second year, first being just an accommodation year etc.

As for the Kubica and Sirtokin matter, and him not letting Clair signing Sirotkin, it just goes to prove my point that it's totally different team with totally different Goals! Signing Sirotkin alongside a teenager tells a lot about a team's ambition (and their budget). But this is different matter.

The real Ginni here is that Paddy Out ---> James In ==> 2 Diva's, one worse than the other. Abracadabra.

And yes you might argue W08 wasn't created by Allison's supervision either. We all know that W08 wasn't a Diva until Ferrari threw a wrench into the gears when they've required a suspension clarification just before the start of the season. Still heavily compromised and wounded W08 managed to get the championship, that car being a Paddy's car.

Glyn
5
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:25 pm

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Glyn » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:26 pm

De Jokke wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:07 pm
Toto (in hindsight) agrees they should have boxed Lewis. 3/3 lost, jeezes merc
Even when they were dominating, like in Monte Carlo. They still made bad pit decisions and errors. People said it would come back to bite them.

Now look what's going on :D

zibby43
31
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:00 am

F1Krof wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:50 pm
W09 is the first heavily influenced James Allison car. They've left the concept going for a higher rake and they believed having the "tyre" guru designing their car would benefit them. Obviously not at all. It's like Diva has reincarnated, and it's whinier than ever. However you cannot take something from them, that being that they've really developed their car, they've done a tremendous job at developing their Diva into a greater Diva, good job really! I've said it hundreds of times James Allison is overrated. If he'd be any good, Ferrari would have kept him for sure. They shouldn't have left Paddy go anywhere. They should bring him back.
So, virtually everyone agreed the W09 was the fastest car after Barcelona testing. The data showed it was faster than the Ferrari in almost every corner (if not every corner altogether).

And then, people were complaining that Merc looked more dominant than ever after qualifying in Melbourne. In the race, Hamilton easily pulled a gap on Vettel after not being able to at all in '17. Ferrari was then gift-wrapped the race.

Fast forward to Bahrain. An average qualifying effort complicated further by Hamilton's gearbox change. Surprisingly, Merc had better than expected race pace in Bahrain. Merc was able to treat its tires gently during the race and put real pressure on Vettel, who delivered a superhuman performance to hold on.

And then, after FP1 and FP2 in China, Merc looked very strong. The rain came, the track became green, and Merc took a wrong turn setup-wise (which subsequently affected their ability to switch on the tires).

Despite looking downright awful in qualifying, Bottas, the #2, was able to remain within striking distance to Vettel during the race, which Merc converted into a race lead. Bottas could've won Merc's 3rd race of the year but for another ill-timed Safety Car situation.

So, yeah, I don't agree with anything you've said above. At the beginning of the year in '17, the W08 had tire problems with the softer compounds in qualifying. Furthermore, the W08 absolutely butchered its rear tires during the early races - a trait that cost Hamilton a win in Melbourne and saw the Merc's going backward during the '17 Bahrain GP.

Now? The W09 has been near the top of the field in managing tire degradation during the race.

Everyone left Merc for dead after the first 3 races of '17. They were trailing Ferrari in the Constructor's after the first 3 races. This year, they're leading by 1 point despite throwing away Melbourne (should've built a bigger gap to account for an unlucky VSC), failing to capitalize in Bahrain, and getting unlucky with an actual Safety Car in China (#2 Bottas was cruising to victory despite Ferrari's efforts to back Bottas up into Vettel).

GPR-A
166
User avatar
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR-A » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 am

There is something about season starting flyaway races and Hamilton. They don't have a love story. This year's script is so similar to last year's. After a deja vu of Australia and Bahrain in many ways, this year's China is last year's Russia.

GPR-A
166
User avatar
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR-A » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 am

De Jokke wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:22 pm
quietly banned?, if they found out they would have been disqualified. So gossip.
The smoking Ferraris seem more suspicious to me as they not only are fastest in a straight line but now also have the fastest car after Melbourne, very strange.....
Mercedes reverting to 2016 oil spec due to oil burning limitations has something to do with their quali issues, coupled with how ferrari is leaking oil into combustion chamber with some kind of a legal trick. Their car is still a diva. I had mentioned on a McLaren thread, I was having a guess that, with W09 having exact same DNA of W08, might continue to have struggles with tyres. Especially with new PIRELLI tyres, which are a step softer.

wesley123
203
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by wesley123 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:30 am

GPR-A wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 am
There is something about season starting flyaway races and Hamilton. They don't have a love story. This year's script is so similar to last year's. After a deja vu of Australia and Bahrain in many ways, this year's China is last year's Russia.
This.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Vanja #66
303
User avatar
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm
Location: BGD, SRB

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Vanja #66 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:08 am

GPR-A wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 am
There is something about season starting flyaway races and Hamilton. They don't have a love story. This year's script is so similar to last year's. After a deja vu of Australia and Bahrain in many ways, this year's China is last year's Russia.
2014 and 2015? :)

Phil
332
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:04 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 am
De Jokke wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:22 pm
quietly banned?, if they found out they would have been disqualified. So gossip.
The smoking Ferraris seem more suspicious to me as they not only are fastest in a straight line but now also have the fastest car after Melbourne, very strange.....
Mercedes reverting to 2016 oil spec due to oil burning limitations has something to do with their quali issues, coupled with how ferrari is leaking oil into combustion chamber with some kind of a legal trick. Their car is still a diva. I had mentioned on a McLaren thread, I was having a guess that, with W09 having exact same DNA of W08, might continue to have struggles with tyres. Especially with new PIRELLI tyres, which are a step softer.
It's funny, I pretty much predicted this too and I've been quietly anticipating this happening at the end of last year going into this year. Everyone then was calling me mad. Softer tires, more oil restrictions and an evolution of a car that was already quite difficult to set-up last year.

The optimist in me, allowed myself to think that perhaps Mercedes could do the impossible and make another big step on the engine front. Barcelona and Melbourne hinted that they had - at least, in the sense that they may still have the most efficient engine resulting in having to run the cars lighter or run higher performance modes longer. 3 races in now, I am not sure they are that far ahead at all.

China might have been another anomaly for Mercedes. Cold weather, not finding the right set-up and that Ultra-Soft-Tire that just didn't work for qualifying. The race looked reasonable, but pretty much equal to Ferrari.

Anyway, Ferrari seems to have an engine that's equal to Mercedes. There's still the point about fuel efficiency, but I've also been thinking if perhaps Ferrari are simply running their engine in a higher mode more often vs Mercedes. With this year only 3 engines being allowed - one could argue that you could either run 3 for 7 races, or there might be a bigger advantage after all in strategically going for 4 engines across 5 races, but taking a penalty at one race.

Running 3 engines is overall easier when you are leading most races. You dictate pace, you can lift and coast more, you also get the benefit of overall lower engine temperatures. However, this isn't working anymore when you are NOT qualifying on pole. It seems much of this year, Mercedes have been the ones on the backfoot vs. Ferrari (with the exception of Melbourne).
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

iotar__
7
User avatar
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:31 am

Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by iotar__ » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:19 pm

Phil wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:04 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 am
De Jokke wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:22 pm
quietly banned?, if they found out they would have been disqualified. So gossip.
The smoking Ferraris seem more suspicious to me as they not only are fastest in a straight line but now also have the fastest car after Melbourne, very strange.....
Mercedes reverting to 2016 oil spec due to oil burning limitations has something to do with their quali issues, coupled with how ferrari is leaking oil into combustion chamber with some kind of a legal trick. Their car is still a diva. I had mentioned on a McLaren thread, I was having a guess that, with W09 having exact same DNA of W08, might continue to have struggles with tyres. Especially with new PIRELLI tyres, which are a step softer.
It's funny, I pretty much predicted this too and I've been quietly anticipating this happening at the end of last year going into this year. Everyone then was calling me mad. Softer tires, more oil restrictions and an evolution of a car that was already quite difficult to set-up last year.
You predicted everything except Australia and China (harder tyres in the race and Ferrari still quicker). Both races that should have been won by Mercedes (Bahrain was close too). Also forgot about the small matter of engines: huge Merc advantage that wasn't huge. Nothing about drivers' perfromance when it's convenient: a given.

Anyway neither oil nor the tyres explain 0,5s in Q in China. Especially oil.