2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Big Tea
10
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Big Tea » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:30 am

iichel wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:26 am
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:33 am
iichel wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:49 am
If you want to have it rotating, you'll probably have to design some sort of bearing with lubrication etc. Otherwise you may find it throwing metal particles into the piston, causing excessive wear and what not. Another question is what happens with the (unpowered?) moving head during combustion. It will probably keep rotating, so that's allright, but it needs be able to withstand all the forces working upon it as well.

And the final question, is the current atomization so 'bad', it needs further refining/optimization with a rotating injector nozzle?
Can I ask a question on this which is beyond my knowledge so may be stupid? (I do not know the correct terms either)

Would a similar effect be achieved by directing one of the 'jets' onto a shaped surface? Possibly even a surface retaining more heat and activating or 'vaporising' (wrong word sorry as it is already a vapor, or just an aerosol?) the fuel into a 'cloud'
I'm not sure there is enough time available in the intake/compression stroke to inject fuel in this way. Furthermore you like to keep the fuel off any surface to minimize heat transfer to the head and cylinder walls.
Thanks for humoring me, I like to ask things I don't know :D

godlameroso
222
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by godlameroso » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:50 pm

Natural EGR will retain some unrreacted radicals, and also help vaporize the fuel of the incoming mixture.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

ringo
204
User avatar
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by ringo » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:59 am

Looks like a V6 engine with no MGUH for the next formula.

I was hoping for a super charged, direct injected v10 with KERS.
This would have given the fans the great sound, but also not regress too much on the high pressure and lean burn technology.
For Sure!!

GhostF1
59
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:11 am

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by GhostF1 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:16 am

ringo wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:59 am
Looks like a V6 engine with no MGUH for the next formula.

I was hoping for a super charged, direct injected v10 with KERS.
This would have given the fans the great sound, but also not regress too much on the high pressure and lean burn technology.
To be honest, the engines this year have improved pretty massively in sound. And the technology gets me far more excited over the NA era.

Apparently removing the MGU-H will improve the sound again. And the forced RPM increase. It can only get more exciting.

gruntguru
359
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by gruntguru » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:15 am

GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:16 am
To be honest, the engines this year have improved pretty massively in sound. And the technology gets me far more excited over the NA era.
Yes. Not much in a NA F1 engine that can't be found in other formulae.
je suis charlie

henry
82
User avatar
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: England

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by henry » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:27 am

The removal of the MGU-H will certainly make it easier to understand with only 2 peak powers rather than 4, and 1 recharge route rather than 3.

But lower complexity will make it much less interesting. But we can see from the FOM coverage that technical interest is low down the priorities. A pole lap video with no telemetry is pretty meaningless to me.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.

McHonda
10
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by McHonda » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am

AMuS reckon they know how the oil was being introduced to the combustion process.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... tor-power/
Meanwhile, it is also known how the oil tricksters have practiced in the past. A seal in the compressor of the turbocharger was deliberately "leaking" designed so that a pre-calculated amount of oil could enter the combustion chamber.
Does this have any relation to those Honda failures that talked about oil blowing or something along those lines and that was just thought to be lost in translation and debated what Hasegawa meant by it or was that something different?

hemichromis
20
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:00 pm

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by hemichromis » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:21 am

How do we expect fuel consumption to be affected by the removal of the MGU-H?

Could the racing be even more fuel limited?

Big Tea
10
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Big Tea » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:02 am

McHonda wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am
AMuS reckon they know how the oil was being introduced to the combustion process.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... tor-power/
Meanwhile, it is also known how the oil tricksters have practiced in the past. A seal in the compressor of the turbocharger was deliberately "leaking" designed so that a pre-calculated amount of oil could enter the combustion chamber.
Does this have any relation to those Honda failures that talked about oil blowing or something along those lines and that was just thought to be lost in translation and debated what Hasegawa meant by it or was that something different?
I find it hard to follow the logic of this as a reliable method. Anyone please feel free to help me out.

The turbo will be running as a constant throughout the race and qualli and there would be no method of varying the amount of leak ( unless there was some sort of sealed unit able to control the pressure ) for all times the engine is running.

There could be no 'qualli mode' or 'Party mode' and the same amount of oil would be going in throughout the qualli and whole race if required or not.

MrPotatoHead
55
User avatar
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:03 pm
Location: All over.

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by MrPotatoHead » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:58 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:02 am
McHonda wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am
AMuS reckon they know how the oil was being introduced to the combustion process.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... tor-power/
Meanwhile, it is also known how the oil tricksters have practiced in the past. A seal in the compressor of the turbocharger was deliberately "leaking" designed so that a pre-calculated amount of oil could enter the combustion chamber.
Does this have any relation to those Honda failures that talked about oil blowing or something along those lines and that was just thought to be lost in translation and debated what Hasegawa meant by it or was that something different?
I find it hard to follow the logic of this as a reliable method. Anyone please feel free to help me out.

The turbo will be running as a constant throughout the race and qualli and there would be no method of varying the amount of leak ( unless there was some sort of sealed unit able to control the pressure ) for all times the engine is running.

There could be no 'qualli mode' or 'Party mode' and the same amount of oil would be going in throughout the qualli and whole race if required or not.
It's bogus imo. And a very unreliable way to do it as you point out.

sosic2121
7
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by sosic2121 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:26 pm

MrPotatoHead wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:58 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:02 am
McHonda wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am
AMuS reckon they know how the oil was being introduced to the combustion process.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... tor-power/



Does this have any relation to those Honda failures that talked about oil blowing or something along those lines and that was just thought to be lost in translation and debated what Hasegawa meant by it or was that something different?
I find it hard to follow the logic of this as a reliable method. Anyone please feel free to help me out.

The turbo will be running as a constant throughout the race and qualli and there would be no method of varying the amount of leak ( unless there was some sort of sealed unit able to control the pressure ) for all times the engine is running.

There could be no 'qualli mode' or 'Party mode' and the same amount of oil would be going in throughout the qualli and whole race if required or not.
It's bogus imo. And a very unreliable way to do it as you point out.
Could they vary the pressure of oil that goes into turbo?
Is it legal?

MrPotatoHead
55
User avatar
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:03 pm
Location: All over.

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by MrPotatoHead » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:34 pm

I don't know of any rules that would prevent that.
But given how fragile the MGU-H can be I doubt anyone would comprise it for any pressure changing controlled leakage.
Another thing to take into account is that as the turbo pressure goes up leakage would go down because of the pressure differential.
Unless you had some dedicated oil pump just for the turbo that increased pressure to match the turbo output pressure.
But you would also need a way to increase the flow as rpm went up... or you would get less benefit from this "leak" ass rpm increased.

More bogus F1 fantasy (the article that is not your post).

sosic2121
7
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by sosic2121 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:55 pm

MrPotatoHead wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:34 pm
I don't know of any rules that would prevent that.
But given how fragile the MGU-H can be I doubt anyone would comprise it for any pressure changing controlled leakage.
Another thing to take into account is that as the turbo pressure goes up leakage would go down because of the pressure differential.
Unless you had some dedicated oil pump just for the turbo that increased pressure to match the turbo output pressure.
But you would also need a way to increase the flow as rpm went up... or you would get less benefit from this "leak" ass rpm increased.

More bogus F1 fantasy (the article that is not your post).
I forgot about air pressure within a turbo #-o

Did Ferrari give up on split turbo and went with MGU-H, compressor, turbine arrangement?
Then they would have to have seal between compressor and MGU-H and this seal would not be subjected to compressor air pressure, only ambient pressure?
Am I reaching to far?

NL_Fer
36
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by NL_Fer » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:56 pm

I think a few extra (switchable) oil sprinklers to “cool” the pistons in the sump would be sufficient enough. Converting oil in fumes to be sucked in by the venttube.

godlameroso
222
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by godlameroso » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:28 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:56 pm
I think a few extra (switchable) oil sprinklers to “cool” the pistons in the sump would be sufficient enough. Converting oil in fumes to be sucked in by the venttube.
You mean overpressurizing the oil squirters to overwhelm the rings?
Image
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee