General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
blueytoo
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by blueytoo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:52 am

If Red Bull is to swap to Honda PU in 2019, it would want to be fully prepared and competitive ASAP.It is feasible (speculation) that Red Bull are working on integrating the Honda PU into RB chassis in the basement rolling road dyno in building 9.

McMika98
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by McMika98 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:21 am

blueytoo wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:34 am
McMika98 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:31 pm
Anyways as an aspiring engineer if i was designing a system in this case a PU with 4 integral components, i would have a requirement to eliminate knock on failures. The failure although unexpected wasnt catastrophic, but then to have knock on effects is just poor design to me.
Eliminating knock on failures is not as easy as it sounds. Every solution has a cost. Design always involves compromise of competing requirements.

Take misfuelling of diesel cars with petrol as an example. Still happens and hasn't been solved.

Don't know if any car will survive a turbo failure without engine damage.
Yes but this is f1 and after throwing over 100 million each year for the last 4 years i expect more. Turbos arent really rocket science and MGUH isnt much of a leap into new frontier of technology.
In the design phase i would have expected an exhaustive NPI pack with all failure mode scenarios. Anyways one assumes the report to the recent failures be like: why did the turbo fail -- MGUH spike, why - why - why --- Integrated components, design issue.
As for the refuel issue, there are several mitigations ala colour coding, labels; which have been quite successful as i never have had issues when i switch between petrol and deisel cars. 99.99% of such errors are due to human factors. Its a major issue in manufacturing, hence the push for automation. But thats different to a design phase where one need to precisely consider such failures and design it out.

Revs84
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Revs84 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:17 am

McMika98 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:21 am
Turbos arent really rocket science and MGUH isnt much of a leap into new frontier of technology.
You'd be surprised how much these engines shared with rocket science when considering the little details the engineers go into when building these PUs. Suffice to say that Honda have recently started working closely with their aircraft division to improve their turbo and other parts of the PU.

This is F1 and unlike rocket science, it's a fierce competition. In the latter there are no particular regulations such as fuel consumption etc. They build something that is reliable, without compromises. In F1 you cannot do that. Every decision is a compromise and I can assure you that these engineers are pushing their envelopes hard in terms of producing relatively reliable engines, yet competitive, within the current regulations.

HondaRaceReplica
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by HondaRaceReplica » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:57 pm

blueytoo wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:52 am
If Red Bull is to swap to Honda PU in 2019, it would want to be fully prepared and competitive ASAP.It is feasible (speculation) that Red Bull are working on integrating the Honda PU into RB chassis in the basement rolling road dyno in building 9.
Are you currently an employee for Renault? :mrgreen:

etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by etusch » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:18 pm

A "new era" in F1 involving Honda and Red Bull could be dawning. That is the prediction of Franz Tost, the boss at Toro Rosso. In Bahrain, Pierre Gasly stunned F1 by driving his newly Honda-powered car to the best result of the Japanese manufacturer's return to formula one.

It comes just two races after McLaren-Honda's bitter split, and as the British team now continues to struggle despite switching to Renault power. McLaren is putting a brave face on the situation. When asked about Gasly's fourth place in Bahrain, McLaren driver Stoffel Vandoorne said: "They (Honda) did their job well and took a big step forward. Now it's up to us to catch them."

Fernando Alonso, on the other hand, answered "No" when asked if McLaren might be starting to regret its decision to dump Honda. But Red Bull is looking ahead to an exciting future.

The team looks likely to drop Renault at the end of 2018 and join its fellow Red Bull-owned Toro Rosso team in using Honda engines. "Congratulations to Toro Rosso and Honda," said team boss Christian Horner. "After Melbourne, it's nice to see that they're actually fast and reliable."

As for whether Toro Rosso will lose its status as the sole Honda-powered team in 2019, boss Franz Tost answered: "That depends on Red Bull. We have nothing to do with their decision."

But now, the next 'dream' might not be another fourth place, but a podium. "I don't dare to dream," said Tost. "But I hope that for Toro Rosso, Honda and Red Bull, a new successful era is coming." (GMM)
https://www.f1today.net/en/

gofast182
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by gofast182 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm

blueytoo wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:52 am
If Red Bull is to swap to Honda PU in 2019, it would want to be fully prepared and competitive ASAP.It is feasible (speculation) that Red Bull are working on integrating the Honda PU into RB chassis in the basement rolling road dyno in building 9.
Given the timetable and what's at stake, I'd be shocked if this isn't happening right now.

ivanlesk
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ivanlesk » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:10 pm

gofast182 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm
blueytoo wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:52 am
If Red Bull is to swap to Honda PU in 2019, it would want to be fully prepared and competitive ASAP.It is feasible (speculation) that Red Bull are working on integrating the Honda PU into RB chassis in the basement rolling road dyno in building 9.
Given the timetable and what's at stake, I'd be shocked if this isn't happening right now.
Is this legal?

maguetox
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by maguetox » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:03 pm

gofast182 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm
blueytoo wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:52 am
If Red Bull is to swap to Honda PU in 2019, it would want to be fully prepared and competitive ASAP.It is feasible (speculation) that Red Bull are working on integrating the Honda PU into RB chassis in the basement rolling road dyno in building 9.
Given the timetable and what's at stake, I'd be shocked if this isn't happening right now.
The only way that I see a Red Bull Honda for 2019 is if Honda have a big and sustancial jump in reliability, power and efficiency and right now I don´t think Honda is ready to do that even with the big improvement showed until now. Additional to that, I have big question marks for how good the Red Bull chassis and aero will be next year and subsequent years after the design structure of RB started the process of replacing the role that Adrian Newey has been doing for the last years in Red Bull.

gofast182
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by gofast182 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:15 pm

I'm not suggesting it is/would be done because they are definitely switching to Honda, I think it is/would be done because they need to de-risk whatever they do next season. All options need to be explored; the stakes for a team like Red Bull are even higher than McLaren at this point.

Big Tea
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Big Tea » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:30 pm

maguetox wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:03 pm
gofast182 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm
blueytoo wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:52 am
If Red Bull is to swap to Honda PU in 2019, it would want to be fully prepared and competitive ASAP.It is feasible (speculation) that Red Bull are working on integrating the Honda PU into RB chassis in the basement rolling road dyno in building 9.
Given the timetable and what's at stake, I'd be shocked if this isn't happening right now.
The only way that I see a Red Bull Honda for 2019 is if Honda have a big and sustancial jump in reliability, power and efficiency and right now I don´t think Honda is ready to do that even with the big improvement showed until now. Additional to that, I have big question marks for how good the Red Bull chassis and aero will be next year and subsequent years after the design structure of RB started the process of replacing the role that Adrian Newey has been doing for the last years in Red Bull.

Have Renault not told RBR they will not supply their engines next year?
If Merc, Ferrari and Renault will not supply engines, the agreed rule is that the maker with the lowest load takes up the slack. Honda currently only supply 1 team, so unless there are 3 engine deals on the cards, its Honda that will fill the gap anyway. It looks like a done deal despite what RBR would have chosen just because it is the only option.
Can I make a 3D printer on my 3D printer?

ivanlesk
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ivanlesk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:43 am

gofast182 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:15 pm
I'm not suggesting it is/would be done because they are definitely switching to Honda, I think it is/would be done because they need to de-risk whatever they do next season. All options need to be explored; the stakes for a team like Red Bull are even higher than McLaren at this point.
Are thy? Why?

maguetox
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by maguetox » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:42 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:30 pm
maguetox wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:03 pm
gofast182 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:07 pm

Given the timetable and what's at stake, I'd be shocked if this isn't happening right now.
The only way that I see a Red Bull Honda for 2019 is if Honda have a big and sustancial jump in reliability, power and efficiency and right now I don´t think Honda is ready to do that even with the big improvement showed until now. Additional to that, I have big question marks for how good the Red Bull chassis and aero will be next year and subsequent years after the design structure of RB started the process of replacing the role that Adrian Newey has been doing for the last years in Red Bull.

Have Renault not told RBR they will not supply their engines next year?
If Merc, Ferrari and Renault will not supply engines, the agreed rule is that the maker with the lowest load takes up the slack. Honda currently only supply 1 team, so unless there are 3 engine deals on the cards, its Honda that will fill the gap anyway. It looks like a done deal despite what RBR would have chosen just because it is the only option.
Renault gave to RBR a date line, if I´m not wrong May, to decide if they want to use their PU for next year, but Horner said they have before the summer break to decide, and if they demand before the FIA to use the Renault unit for next year, Renault will have to give it to them, they have no choice. So RBR Honda for 2019 is not a done deal.

Marti_EF3
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Marti_EF3 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:45 pm

I think they are waiting for the engine upgrade on Canada, and how it works, before making any decisions. Renault can say what they want, but the FIA gives more time to say what engine will be on 2019

Big Tea
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by Big Tea » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:49 pm

maguetox wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:42 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:30 pm
maguetox wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:03 pm

The only way that I see a Red Bull Honda for 2019 is if Honda have a big and sustancial jump in reliability, power and efficiency and right now I don´t think Honda is ready to do that even with the big improvement showed until now. Additional to that, I have big question marks for how good the Red Bull chassis and aero will be next year and subsequent years after the design structure of RB started the process of replacing the role that Adrian Newey has been doing for the last years in Red Bull.

Have Renault not told RBR they will not supply their engines next year?
If Merc, Ferrari and Renault will not supply engines, the agreed rule is that the maker with the lowest load takes up the slack. Honda currently only supply 1 team, so unless there are 3 engine deals on the cards, its Honda that will fill the gap anyway. It looks like a done deal despite what RBR would have chosen just because it is the only option.
Renault gave to RBR a date line, if I´m not wrong May, to decide if they want to use their PU for next year, but Horner said they have before the summer break to decide, and if they demand before the FIA to use the Renault unit for next year, Renault will have to give it to them, they have no choice. So RBR Honda for 2019 is not a done deal.
You are right, its a May deadline.

This article on it does not make them look friends though

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13456 ... a-decision
Can I make a 3D printer on my 3D printer?

ivanlesk
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

Post by ivanlesk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:55 pm

Marti_EF3 wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:45 pm
I think they are waiting for the engine upgrade on Canada, and how it works, before making any decisions. Renault can say what they want, but the FIA gives more time to say what engine will be on 2019
I must say that I don't understand you (part with Renault and FIA). Could you please elaborate more?