2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Chene_Mostert
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Chene_Mostert » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:47 am

ME4ME wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:29 am
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:07 am
What an unbelievable stupid race strategy by the team :(
Yes I think that's fair to say. They lost track position to Bottas unneccesarily. Also they destroyed Kimi's race, and only got lucky in the end. A lot of anger will be deflected towards Verstappen, and rightfully so. But Ferrari made a couple of bad calls today.
Yes, they keep on trying to extend the tyres early in the race, they need to be more aggressive in the first part and then start managing at the end.
We totally gave up track position today with Vet and Kimmi. We should have pushed hard From lap 14 to 18 with both drivers and pitted them on lap 19&20
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vanja #66 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:02 pm

Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:47 am
Yes, they keep on trying to extend the tyres early in the race, they need to be more aggressive in the first part and then start managing at the end.
We totally gave up track position today with Vet and Kimmi. We should have pushed hard From lap 14 to 18 with both drivers and pitted them on lap 19&20
So you expetced Bottas to make up 5s comapred to Vettel in those four sectors? Good job, they should hire you before Baku :)

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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Chene_Mostert » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:30 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:02 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:47 am
Yes, they keep on trying to extend the tyres early in the race, they need to be more aggressive in the first part and then start managing at the end.
We totally gave up track position today with Vet and Kimmi. We should have pushed hard From lap 14 to 18 with both drivers and pitted them on lap 19&20
So you expetced Bottas to make up 5s comapred to Vettel in those four sectors? Good job, they should hire you before Baku :)
We should rather use the "under cut" pace advantage to extend our lead ( Vet was clear of Hulk from lap 15 ) and not allow the second place driver to close the gap by stopping first. As easy as 123. More aggresion at the start and then manage at the end.
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

Sevach
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Sevach » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:48 pm

Stint 1 of Vettel vs Bottas
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... n%20Vettel

Tires were hitting the cliff, up until lap 13 Vettel is very consistent with repeated 38,7s.
From lap 16 to 19 times are 39,2 and 3 times 39,4 , the team was slow to make the call (losing almost a full second in the pits didn't help either).
Cars on fresh tires were 2,5s quicker.

Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vanja #66 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:59 pm

Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:30 pm
We should rather use the "under cut" pace advantage to extend our lead ( Vet was clear of Hulk from lap 15 ) and not allow the second place driver to close the gap by stopping first. As easy as 123. More aggresion at the start and then manage at the end.
3.5s was always enough of a gap to prevent under cut last year, even on this circuit. Nobody could have known this. What if there was a SC in lap 16? Seb pitting in lap 15 would have brought him to P6 if everyone used that to change their tyres. Oh, how bad would that have been.

Honestly, instead of gloating when Mercedes or Red Bull have some issues like yesterday (and that 0.5s per lap was obviously not a realistic advantage) and crying about poor strategy after the race, we should point out some positive things from this weekend for Ferrari:

- Ferrari appear to be on top of their problems from Australia, with nothing more than better set-up
- Ferrari appear to be better on straights while keeping their pace throughout the corners compared to Mercedes, and are better everywhere compared to Red Bull, this being very important for pole position fight, which is showing to be even more important this year
- This advantage is shown in race in a way, as Seb pulled away from Bottas easier than Bottas pulled away from Seb (and made a bigger gap) and Mercedes was forced yesterday to sacrifice corner speed for top speed to have a fighting chance in the race
- Vettel, as championship leader, has maintained his advantage in spite of being hit by Max, so he ran trough a catastrophic race for him with a few points and his main rival struggling as well
- There are usually two unlucky races (not qualifications, just races with things going against them) for championship contenders in previous seasons, and I'm not counting races where one of them is simply slower than his team mate, Seb just pushed trough one of them
- Whether their concept will give them more room for aero improvement over the season or not is to be seen, but there is room for that in multiple areas and that is important
- Power train development is "less" important, but reliability will be of utmost importance and the team confirmed that Control Electronics from Bahrain are OK and will be used again during the season, so no upcoming penalties - yet

For the team, the pace in qualy and race is there, reliability is to be seen, but for now there are no major issues. Sometimes, like today, luck is just not on your side.

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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Chene_Mostert » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:32 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:59 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:30 pm
We should rather use the "under cut" pace advantage to extend our lead ( Vet was clear of Hulk from lap 15 ) and not allow the second place driver to close the gap by stopping first. As easy as 123. More aggresion at the start and then manage at the end.
3.5s was always enough of a gap to prevent under cut last year, even on this circuit. Nobody could have known this. What if there was a SC in lap 16? Seb pitting in lap 15 would have brought him to P6 if everyone used that to change their tyres. Oh, how bad would that have been.

Honestly, instead of gloating when Mercedes or Red Bull have some issues like yesterday (and that 0.5s per lap was obviously not a realistic advantage) and crying about poor strategy after the race, we should point out some positive things from this weekend for Ferrari:

- Ferrari appear to be on top of their problems from Australia, with nothing more than better set-up
- Ferrari appear to be better on straights while keeping their pace throughout the corners compared to Mercedes, and are better everywhere compared to Red Bull, this being very important for pole position fight, which is showing to be even more important this year
- This advantage is shown in race in a way, as Seb pulled away from Bottas easier than Bottas pulled away from Seb (and made a bigger gap) and Mercedes was forced yesterday to sacrifice corner speed for top speed to have a fighting chance in the race
- Vettel, as championship leader, has maintained his advantage in spite of being hit by Max, so he ran trough a catastrophic race for him with a few points and his main rival struggling as well
- There are usually two unlucky races (not qualifications, just races with things going against them) for championship contenders in previous seasons, and I'm not counting races where one of them is simply slower than his team mate, Seb just pushed trough one of them
- Whether their concept will give them more room for aero improvement over the season or not is to be seen, but there is room for that in multiple areas and that is important
- Power train development is "less" important, but reliability will be of utmost importance and the team confirmed that Control Electronics from Bahrain are OK and will be used again during the season, so no upcoming penalties - yet

For the team, the pace in qualy and race is there, reliability is to be seen, but for now there are no major issues. Sometimes, like today, luck is just not on your side.
3.5 Sec was not enough, Seb came out behind Bot incase you mised it.
The team needs to be more aggresive with their Strategies. and stop trying to play it safe.
A safety car can come out at any time so trying to base your strategy around it will not always work.
Also Seb's advantage was reduced to only 9 points - not accepable after doing all the hard work.
Ferrari had too many strategic errors so far this season. They have a good car, good drivers and now the pit team needs to come to the party.
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

ME4ME
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by ME4ME » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:50 pm

Vanja I think it's fair enough to take a positive approach and realize how good Ferrari has been this weekend, and how they now look to be a real championship contending team for the season. But as for this weekend, they came away with less points than they should have, and they can not be blind for the mistakes they've made.

Regardless if the pit stop buffer changed since last year, there was no reason to risk anything with Vettel. They should have pitted him right after Bottas pitted. What they did with Kimi blows my mind. It was disrespectful in a way.

I don't agree with Chene_mostert that Ferrari needs to be more aggressive and play it less save. Aggressiveness can be just as bad as it can be good. Ferrari's strategist need to use their heads and act or react according to how a race unfolds. Actually, even in Bahrain they got out-played by Mercedes. Vettel saved the day on that occation, Bottas was Bottas and Hamilton had communication/frustration issues.

Strategy is the prime area where improvement is needed at the Scuderia, in my opinion.

LM10
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by LM10 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:57 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:59 pm

- Ferrari appear to be on top of their problems from Australia, with nothing more than better set-up
We've seen a low-downforce rear wing which was tested in practice this weekend. Obviously it turned out not to be as good as the conventional one (or they didn't yet manage to find the right setup for it) as they didn't use it in race.

But what about the new floor everyone was speaking of prior to China? Has there been a new one, or not?

As for the rest of your comment, I agree with you.

Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vanja #66 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:10 pm

LM10 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:57 pm
We've seen a low-downforce rear wing which was tested in practice this weekend. Obviously it turned out not to be as good as the conventional one (or they didn't yet manage to find the right setup for it) as they didn't use it in race.
It was a test for Baku. :)

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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vettel165 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:36 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:10 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:57 pm
We've seen a low-downforce rear wing which was tested in practice this weekend. Obviously it turned out not to be as good as the conventional one (or they didn't yet manage to find the right setup for it) as they didn't use it in race.
It was a test for Baku. :)
Vanja you are really amazing at analysing many things, I am speechless in a good way. What do you think about S3 in Baku? Will Ferrari again be the fastest car on that straight, because my opinion is that our car is having less drag than and with a better "engine" Q3 mode than the Mercedes.

Looking at the bigger picture, we are just 1 point of Mercedes after 3 races and Seb is leading the WDC by 9 points. Not bad if we look how after testing, media was telling us that Ferrari is the third or even fourth fastest car on the grid. But I didnt believe them a word, from the first getaway I saw a big potential in this car, the color, the packaging of the car, everything looked perfect. There are still 18 races to go, 450 points are still available, this is a massive number. Development will be the key for this season, but like I already said, I think our car philosphy is having more potential to unlock with high rake-low drag than Mercedes, RBR cars which are an evolution of last years car, we have a brand new one (revolution).Will see. I am very calm now, because we are still leading the WDC. Yes today is could be better, but it could be also much worse. I have full confidence in this team.

Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vanja #66 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:59 pm

Vettel165 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:36 pm
Vanja you are really amazing at analysing many things, I am speechless in a good way. What do you think about S3 in Baku? Will Ferrari again be the fastest car on that straight, because my opinion is that our car is having less drag than and with a better "engine" Q3 mode than the Mercedes.
Cheers mate. :) Actually, I read this wing being a Baku test somewhere, before that I was convinced it's a test for China. We've never seen low drag rear wings here because S1 and S2 don't let you to. Most of us were probably thinking that it's a trial for this race (since these cars have such an insane amount of downforce already), but we all forgot which race is next in line.

To be honest, before Bahrain I expected Merc to come out on top in these 3 races, but was hoping for Ferrari to find something to keep things interesting. After Bahrain I was still convinced Merc will be stronger in China, since warmer conditions usually favored Ferrari a bit last year. After yesterday I didn't believe that the gap is half a second - and it obviously isn't, so Mercedes is far from third best car, no matter what Lewis says now. :)

Baku? It will be interesting, very interesting. The only thing we can (safely) assume is that in regular conditions, Red Bull won't be able to keep up with Ferrari and Mercedes, Renault is still lacking a bit. We'll see spoon wings in Baku, Montreal, Spielberg, probably Le Castellet, Silverstone, of course - Spa and Monza - Russia and Japan. It used to be only Spa and Monza not so long ago. :)

Brenton
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Brenton » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:12 pm

In response to: "A safety car can come out at any time so trying to base your strategy around it will not always work." <<< Strategy should always factor in the possibility of a safety car. Weighing out the odds of it happening at any given moment, and what the impact of that would be. One of the many things considered when making any decision about pit strategy. The safety car risk should always be a factor in a decision.

This was a huge weekend for Ferrari. WDC chances have gone from 30% to near 50% in one race, and WCC is now a real possibility! Hamilton's reaction post qualifying to me was the face of someone who thinks that Ferrari has a good chance of being the fastest car this season. It sent a big message.

I wonder how Raikkonen would have done without the SC. He was a second a lap faster early in his second stint before the SC, due to fresher tires. We criticize for the time wasted on staying out, but sometimes staying out later results in a faster overall race time. In fact it probably usually does if not for traffic. Track position being so important. Though the overtaking delta here was around 1 second, so maybe he could have overtaken some. But then again, he's been poor in dirty air with these current 2017-present cars.

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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vasconia » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:37 am

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:59 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:30 pm
We should rather use the "under cut" pace advantage to extend our lead ( Vet was clear of Hulk from lap 15 ) and not allow the second place driver to close the gap by stopping first. As easy as 123. More aggresion at the start and then manage at the end.
3.5s was always enough of a gap to prevent under cut last year, even on this circuit. Nobody could have known this. What if there was a SC in lap 16? Seb pitting in lap 15 would have brought him to P6 if everyone used that to change their tyres. Oh, how bad would that have been.

Honestly, instead of gloating when Mercedes or Red Bull have some issues like yesterday (and that 0.5s per lap was obviously not a realistic advantage) and crying about poor strategy after the race, we should point out some positive things from this weekend for Ferrari:

- Ferrari appear to be on top of their problems from Australia, with nothing more than better set-up
- Ferrari appear to be better on straights while keeping their pace throughout the corners compared to Mercedes, and are better everywhere compared to Red Bull, this being very important for pole position fight, which is showing to be even more important this year
- This advantage is shown in race in a way, as Seb pulled away from Bottas easier than Bottas pulled away from Seb (and made a bigger gap) and Mercedes was forced yesterday to sacrifice corner speed for top speed to have a fighting chance in the race
- Vettel, as championship leader, has maintained his advantage in spite of being hit by Max, so he ran trough a catastrophic race for him with a few points and his main rival struggling as well
- There are usually two unlucky races (not qualifications, just races with things going against them) for championship contenders in previous seasons, and I'm not counting races where one of them is simply slower than his team mate, Seb just pushed trough one of them
- Whether their concept will give them more room for aero improvement over the season or not is to be seen, but there is room for that in multiple areas and that is important
- Power train development is "less" important, but reliability will be of utmost importance and the team confirmed that Control Electronics from Bahrain are OK and will be used again during the season, so no upcoming penalties - yet

For the team, the pace in qualy and race is there, reliability is to be seen, but for now there are no major issues. Sometimes, like today, luck is just not on your side.
100% agree, without big updates Ferrari has been able to improve the car a lot thanks to a better understanding of the correct set-up. Moreover, the car seems to work with both hot and cold situations, this is amazing and makes the season even more interesting because we are not sure anymore which track will suit each car.

All those good aspects make this weekend even more fustrating because Hamilton has closed the gap even having a bad race. I expect Mercedes and him to be stronger in Baku, it would be weird if he does not return to his best after two "mediocre" races. Anyway if Ferrari kan keep this great top speed they should be strong there and if they can have a good balance it would be a difficult task for the other teams to overtake them.

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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:12 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:59 pm
- Ferrari appear to be better on straights
- This advantage is shown in race in a way, as Seb pulled away from Bottas easier than Bottas pulled away from Seb (and made a bigger gap)
Agree with all but these 2 points.

1. From the onboards it was clear mercedes had noticably more straight line speed than ferrari when running in clear air aka normal race laps. Bottas top speed ~315 kph, Vettel top speed ~307 kph. I still believe mercedes engine to be the best simply because the only possible explanation for this kind of difference is more ERS deployment (because in quali with full battery they were equal I've not considered drag to be a major influence in this case), which will be tough to beat in Baku (remember 1.2s quali advantage last year lol).

2. Bottas never pulled away from Vettel apart from the SC restart. Vettel caught up with him again and stayed within 1s for a few laps before being overtaken by ricciardo.

Vettel165
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Vettel165 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:08 pm

Juzh wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:12 pm

Agree with all but these 2 points.

1. From the onboards it was clear mercedes had noticably more straight line speed than ferrari when running in clear air aka normal race laps. Bottas top speed ~315 kph, Vettel top speed ~307 kph. I still believe mercedes engine to be the best simply because the only possible explanation for this kind of difference is more ERS deployment (because in quali with full battery they were equal I've not considered drag to be a major influence in this case), which will be tough to beat in Baku (remember 1.2s quali advantage last year lol).
I have to agree with that, it will tought, but impossible? I think not. Last year Mercedes created much less drag on the straights with the car than Ferrari and they had an engine advantage. This year I see the Ferrari having with their philosphy less drag than Mercedes with probably equal engine in terms of pure power, with Ferrari having a slight advantage in Q3 and Mercedes in the race (with Ferrari having to save more fuel and do lift and coasting than the Mercedes). US tyres used for Q3 might again also play into Ferraris hands, hope I am not wrong, but I think this year we have a decent shot also for Baku. With the high-rake I thing we should be also fast in that twisty S2, with not losing to much time to the RBR. Interesting time ahead.

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