Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
trinidefender
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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Mudflap wrote:
25 Apr 2018, 20:23
F1 engines have always ran the lowest possible ring tension.
Well lower tension would generally lead to higher oil consumption and larger amounts of blow by. Additionally higher levels of wear on cylinder walls (makes me wonder if the Ferrari ICE has higher levels of power degradation from running).

Piston rings use in cylinder pressure to help them seal...makes sense that they get large amounts of blow by and oil consumption at very low loads and rpms (especially when there is no need for the MGU-H to spool to turbocharger at idle).

63l8qrrfy6
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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For the same ring face width radial forces (and hence friction) are lower when the tension is lower so bore wear should reduce.

I agree about oil consumption and blowby increasing.

NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit

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During the Bahrain race, the artificial lighting was showing a constant puff of smoke uit of the new sump breather under the exhaust. It was constant, but not THAT much imo.

tpe
tpe
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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Can someone translate what the problem with the battery is?

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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tpe wrote:
01 May 2018, 12:32
Can someone translate what the problem with the battery is?
Ferrari is supposed to draw more energy from the energy store than the permitted four megajoules via a clever circuit of the battery cells. It is said that the battery has two plugs through which individual electrical power is drawn off. The FIA began its investigations on Saturday. On Sunday, all engine manufacturers received mail from the world association. They have to be delivered diagrams of how the energy is stored, delivered and distributed. If there are enough suspicions, batteries could even be removed.

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djos
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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tpe wrote:
01 May 2018, 12:32
Can someone translate what the problem with the battery is?
From Google:
What's up with the battery?
The most recent suspicion occurred in Baku on the table. Ferrari is about a clever circuit of the battery cells in the short term to draw more energy from the energy storage than the allowed four megajoules. Allegedly, the battery has two plugs, via which individual electrical power is dissipated. The FIA ​​began its investigations on Saturday. On Sunday, all engine manufacturers got mail from the World Association. You need to get diagrams showing how the energy is stored, delivered and distributed. With enough suspicion, batteries could even be removed. The topic could still occupy Formula 1 in the coming weeks.

At the technical acceptance Ferrari is currently under special observation.
When it comes to the question of how an outside team comes to such a hidden detail, there are two possible explanations. The one: The former Ferrari engine boss Lorenzo Sassi chatted. He has been working for Mercedes since April. Or the opponents it is Spanish that Ferrari uses the electric turbocharger for gas production when blowing the rear wing in the coasting of the engine. What is allowed, but electricity costs, which then can not be used to propel the car.

Background: When the driver goes off the gas, the electric machine drives the turbine. As when accelerating to fill the turbo lag. The compressed air is chased by the engine without combustion. The exhaust jet delivers so even when braking by blowing the wing a few points contact pressure. But this trick also costs energy that is missing elsewhere. The competition is now puzzling why Ferrari sacrifices energy from the electric storage for a small aerodynamic advantage. Is there an oversupply? Red Bull Chief Technology Officer Adrian Newey regrets: "We can not afford to blow it right now. It would cost us too much on the drive side. "
"In downforce we trust"

Tom145145
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Joined: 06 Sep 2015, 22:26
Location: UK

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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djos wrote:
01 May 2018, 12:36
tpe wrote:
01 May 2018, 12:32
Can someone translate what the problem with the battery is?
From Google:
What's up with the battery?
The most recent suspicion occurred in Baku on the table. Ferrari is about a clever circuit of the battery cells in the short term to draw more energy from the energy storage than the allowed four megajoules. Allegedly, the battery has two plugs, via which individual electrical power is dissipated. The FIA ​​began its investigations on Saturday. On Sunday, all engine manufacturers got mail from the World Association. You need to get diagrams showing how the energy is stored, delivered and distributed. With enough suspicion, batteries could even be removed. The topic could still occupy Formula 1 in the coming weeks.

At the technical acceptance Ferrari is currently under special observation.
When it comes to the question of how an outside team comes to such a hidden detail, there are two possible explanations. The one: The former Ferrari engine boss Lorenzo Sassi chatted. He has been working for Mercedes since April. Or the opponents it is Spanish that Ferrari uses the electric turbocharger for gas production when blowing the rear wing in the coasting of the engine. What is allowed, but electricity costs, which then can not be used to propel the car.

Background: When the driver goes off the gas, the electric machine drives the turbine. As when accelerating to fill the turbo lag. The compressed air is chased by the engine without combustion. The exhaust jet delivers so even when braking by blowing the wing a few points contact pressure. But this trick also costs energy that is missing elsewhere. The competition is now puzzling why Ferrari sacrifices energy from the electric storage for a small aerodynamic advantage. Is there an oversupply? Red Bull Chief Technology Officer Adrian Newey regrets: "We can not afford to blow it right now. It would cost us too much on the drive side. "
Could it be possible under breaking to effectively bypass the battery and bleed off a portion of the mguk energy to run the turbo? I am not well versed in the regulations, but this may not be counted in the 4mj limit, as this is a battery deployment limit.

Edit; I have found in the regulation a handy appendix on energy flows and limits, the mguk to mguh and vice versa is unlimited.

Tom145145
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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JPBD1990
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Joined: 22 Feb 2018, 12:19

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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Edit; I have found in the regulation a handy appendix on energy flows and limits, the mguk to mguh and vice versa is unlimited.
Can you provide reference to the regulations to confirm this? If the flow is unrestricted, why would this be investigated?

It seems this years ferrari features many illegal components... or it’s got everyone scared by how competitive it is.

So far:
-Oil limit being exceeded (smoking on start up)
-Exhaust blowing rear wing off throttle
-Illegal additional paddle on Vettel steering wheel
-mirrors
-now drawing more power from the battery than is allowable.

They’re definitely pushing the envelope... but I’m going to worry about this for the next fortnight.

LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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JPBD1990 wrote:
01 May 2018, 15:47
Edit; I have found in the regulation a handy appendix on energy flows and limits, the mguk to mguh and vice versa is unlimited.
Can you provide reference to the regulations to confirm this? If the flow is unrestricted, why would this be investigated?

It seems this years ferrari features many illegal components... or it’s got everyone scared by how competitive it is.

So far:
-Oil limit being exceeded (smoking on start up)
-Exhaust blowing rear wing off throttle
-Illegal additional paddle on Vettel steering wheel
-mirrors
-now drawing more power from the battery than is allowable.

They’re definitely pushing the envelope... but I’m going to worry about this for the next fortnight.
- Ol limit: Several investigations of FIA didn't reveal anything. Ferrari has never exceeded the limit of 0,6 l oil in the races so far.

- Mirrors: This just was a pretty minor thing. It's not allowed to see asphalt in the part between mirrors and side pods when looking from bird view. It didn't give them any performance advantage and is solved by these 2 little pieces on it now anyway.

- Additional pedal: Who told that's illegal?

- Exhaust blowing and more power from the battery: These two things are coupled. It's suspected Ferrari is able to put out more energy from battery and therefore use electric power to drive the turbo so they can blow the rear wing and at the same time don't lose power on power unit side. That's being investigated since Saturday.

It's not a surprise the main rivals of the fastest car suspect and doubt every tiny bit of the car being legal or not. And the fastest car right now is the Ferrari. Just look at how much of a time other team's engineers seem to spend at just searching for anything. Redbull came up with the thing with the mirrors.
Another thing which was investigated by the FIA was the rumor Ferrari would be mixing hydraulic oil into the cylinders. And again, FIA investigated on this matter and didn't find anything illegal.
Last edited by LM10 on 01 May 2018, 16:52, edited 1 time in total.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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So the teams suspect Ferrari to use more energy than the allowed 4MJ in order to blow the RW via the MGU-H and still having enough energy left for the MGU-K. This would indicate that Ferrari is using a bigger ES than allowed which is super illegal and would be quite easy to discover by the FIA I guess. Also this whole topic of blowing the RW via the MGU-H based only on speculations..
Last edited by MtthsMlw on 02 May 2018, 13:24, edited 1 time in total.

George-Jung
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Joined: 29 Apr 2014, 15:39

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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Not sure how credible, but wasn't this matter already sorted?
http://scuderiafans.com/fia-confirms-20 ... t-illegal/

100% not illegal.

Or is this battery thing something new?

Tom145145
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Joined: 06 Sep 2015, 22:26
Location: UK

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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MtthsMlw wrote:
01 May 2018, 16:40
So the teams suspect Ferrari to use more energy than the allowed 4MJ in order to blow the RW via the MGU-H and still having enough energy left for the MGU-K. This would indicate that Ferrari is using a bigger ES than allowed which is super illegal and would be quite easy to discover by the FIA I guess. Also this whole topic of blowing the RW via the MGU-H based only on speculations..
This should go to the PU thread btw.
If they have a way of bypassing the ES then the 4 MJ is not applicable. Could this also be used to supply more power to the MGUK? This may explain the odd sounds from the wastegate. I am sorry to say that this is beyond my understanding and is probably impractical in reality. Nice to speculate though! :)

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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Tom145145 wrote:
01 May 2018, 17:49
MtthsMlw wrote:
01 May 2018, 16:40
So the teams suspect Ferrari to use more energy than the allowed 4MJ in order to blow the RW via the MGU-H and still having enough energy left for the MGU-K. This would indicate that Ferrari is using a bigger ES than allowed which is super illegal and would be quite easy to discover by the FIA I guess. Also this whole topic of blowing the RW via the MGU-H based only on speculations..
This should go to the PU thread btw.
If they have a way of bypassing the ES then the 4 MJ is not applicable. Could this also be used to supply more power to the MGUK? This may explain the odd sounds from the wastegate. I am sorry to say that this is beyond my understanding and is probably impractical in reality. Nice to speculate though! :)
More power to the MGUK would be quite easy to see on GPS Data I think. Overall I don't think anything crazy is going on the car is quick which obviously draws attention to it. Shows Ferrari is doing it right :D

.poz
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Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 16:44

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

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Tom145145 wrote:
01 May 2018, 12:55
Edit; I have found in the regulation a handy appendix on energy flows and limits, the mguk to mguh and vice versa is unlimited.
MGUH to/from ES and it's also unlimited.

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