2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

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GPR-A
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by GPR-A » Mon May 14, 2018 6:16 pm

Nonserviam85 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:16 pm
And please stop providing statistics for someone's greatness, there is a difference between greatness and success which obviously you cannot distinguish between.
I get it. Because you don't have statistics to prove Stoner's talent, you are asking me to stop posting someone else' greatness. Nice! You guys are awesome man. Which planet are you from? On this planet, greatness is not about sitting at home on a couch and watching others rake up wins and championships and making cheap comments! It's about performing on the track and your records are a barometer for the greatness. Fangio, Pele, Senna, Schumacher, Federer, Rossi, Messi, Bolt are great talents and their statistics are the evidence for their greatness! Success is synonymous to the talent. Get that?

There is a specific word for those who can't repeat their feats! "One hit wonders". Stoner was definitely one on Ducati and on Honda.

You can even claim that Pastor Maldonado was the greatest talent on earth, but hey "success is different from greatness" crap.

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by NathanOlder » Mon May 14, 2018 8:28 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:51 am
Muniix wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:15 pm
Dovi was on to win especially given MM thinks that accelerating earlier in the wrong direction before the last turn will get him to the line earler! Mate your heading in the wrong direction, finish line is the other way. They honda may be extra rigid to support breaking forces and quick turn-in but he's not as good as Stoner.
yeah Marc Marquez should ask you how to turn with a MotoGP bike, he knows nothing! :lol: #-o


Unfortunately we will never know who´s better, Stoner got bored and retired so now we can only speculate, but we will never know. We only know Stoner won 2 titles before retiring when he was 27, while Marquez has won 4 titles at the age of 25 :P
Stoner did indeed get bored and retired, at least he hasn't done an Alonso. As for 4 titles vs 2, That means nothing , or is Vettel really twice the driver Vettel is.

Casey battled with a prime Vale and a decent Dani. Marquez has had a decent Lorenzo for a couple of years before he lost his head, and a useless Dani.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by NathanOlder » Mon May 14, 2018 8:35 pm

And I'd like to add, You do realise Casey suffered from a mystery illness while racing. He also missed races in his title defence season on the Honda due to an injury.
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by Andres125sx » Tue May 15, 2018 8:21 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:28 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 7:51 am
Muniix wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:15 pm
Dovi was on to win especially given MM thinks that accelerating earlier in the wrong direction before the last turn will get him to the line earler! Mate your heading in the wrong direction, finish line is the other way. They honda may be extra rigid to support breaking forces and quick turn-in but he's not as good as Stoner.
yeah Marc Marquez should ask you how to turn with a MotoGP bike, he knows nothing! :lol: #-o


Unfortunately we will never know who´s better, Stoner got bored and retired so now we can only speculate, but we will never know. We only know Stoner won 2 titles before retiring when he was 27, while Marquez has won 4 titles at the age of 25 :P
Stoner did indeed get bored and retired, at least he hasn't done an Alonso.
What do you mean? Racing for more than a decade? Competing on different categories?

NathanOlder wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:28 pm
As for 4 titles vs 2, That means nothing , or is Vettel really twice the driver Vettel is.
A clarification just in case you didn´t notice, this is MotoGP thread, wich is completely different to F1 :wink: :P

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by NathanOlder » Tue May 15, 2018 8:28 am

8) haha. I was just putting it in to perspective. Casey didn't do an Alonso as in, hung around for a decade wasting his time :wink:
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by Andres125sx » Tue May 15, 2018 3:38 pm

Then we have very different concepts about what's wasting your time :wink:

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by digitalrurouni » Tue May 15, 2018 5:35 pm

I don't think Casey Stoner had a mystery illness. I believe it had to do with lactose intolerance. I still rate Casey Stoner higher than Marc but not by much. I would not be surprised if I had it backwards.

Marc is a phenom no doubt. He has raised the game for sure. He brought about a new elbow dragging style and crazy catlike saves on bikes that are just spectacular to watch. It's as if he was Casey Stoner's raw speed with Lorenzo's metronomic pace with Rossi's wiliness on track when it comes to wheel to wheel racing - when he doesn't have a brain fart!!

Casey's last year in 2012 you could totally tell his heart was not in to it and then he binned it and broke his leg if I remember right and that was the end of that. Too bad he retired. But I understand his reasons. He won 2 championships with 2 different manufacturers and then people are still talking about his talent and skill and their desire for him to come back once again.

He still seems to me to be in very decent form when he throws the leg over a bike during testing. His lap times are super competitive and it's quite staggering when Ducati reveal they don't allow him to change settings just set lap times and give feedback!

Nonserviam85
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by Nonserviam85 » Wed May 16, 2018 12:14 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:16 pm
Nonserviam85 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:16 pm
And please stop providing statistics for someone's greatness, there is a difference between greatness and success which obviously you cannot distinguish between.
I get it. Because you don't have statistics to prove Stoner's talent, you are asking me to stop posting someone else' greatness. Nice! You guys are awesome man. Which planet are you from? On this planet, greatness is not about sitting at home on a couch and watching others rake up wins and championships and making cheap comments! It's about performing on the track and your records are a barometer for the greatness. Fangio, Pele, Senna, Schumacher, Federer, Rossi, Messi, Bolt are great talents and their statistics are the evidence for their greatness! Success is synonymous to the talent. Get that?

There is a specific word for those who can't repeat their feats! "One hit wonders". Stoner was definitely one on Ducati and on Honda.

You can even claim that Pastor Maldonado was the greatest talent on earth, but hey "success is different from greatness" crap.
So he is a two-hit wonder. Which by itself contradicts your one-hit wonder argument...

According to you logic Schumacher is the greatest right? Can you claim though that he was greatest than Senna? Sorry man, it is still obvious that you do not understand the difference.

So MotoGP talking, can you claim that Kevin Schwantz is not one of the greatest despite being less successful than others? If you believe that then you are clueless.

You are really mistaken if you believe that success is only linked to talent. Talent accounts only to the extra 5% everything else is dedication, hard work and sometimes luck/circumstances. So unless someone else wins a MotoGP championship with a Ducati, Stoner will always be considered one of the Greats because he simply did something that no one else could replicate (or even come close).

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by NathanOlder » Wed May 16, 2018 1:41 pm

:-$ :-$ :-$

Dovi nearly won the title last year :)

Stoner helped develop the bike though, so were ok.

As for the whole MM vs Casey, I really dislike MM but I can see he's an outstanding talent, just like Casey was. If they were both on the same bike in their prime, I have no idea who would win. The both get on a bike and simply ride around any problem they encounter, no one else does that. They are very similar, and equally as good. I just cant believe the BS that people have been saying about Casey not being one of the greats.
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Nonserviam85
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by Nonserviam85 » Wed May 16, 2018 1:58 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:41 pm
:-$ :-$ :-$

Dovi nearly won the title last year :)

Stoner helped develop the bike though, so were ok.

As for the whole MM vs Casey, I really dislike MM but I can see he's an outstanding talent, just like Casey was. If they were both on the same bike in their prime, I have no idea who would win. The both get on a bike and simply ride around any problem they encounter, no one else does that. They are very similar, and equally as good. I just cant believe the BS that people have been saying about Casey not being one of the greats.
37 points can not be considered near. He was in contention until the last race though, but not nearly exactly :D

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by NathanOlder » Wed May 16, 2018 3:06 pm

Yeah it would have been a completely different story if Dovi didnt screw up at Phillip Island. He lost something like 20pts to MM that day, then on the final day in Valencia Dovi dropped it in the gravel trying to do the impossible and that was after MM fell off and stayed on it all in the same corner in only a way MM can do it. So it WAS close. and could have easily gone the other way.
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GPR-A
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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by GPR-A » Wed May 16, 2018 3:48 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:06 pm
Yeah it would have been a completely different story if Dovi didnt screw up at Phillip Island. He lost something like 20pts to MM that day, then on the final day in Valencia Dovi dropped it in the gravel trying to do the impossible and that was after MM fell off and stayed on it all in the same corner in only a way MM can do it. So it WAS close. and could have easily gone the other way.
MM had 3 retirements before the final race, where Dovi had an off at an insignificant time, by which time he had lost the title. Dovi had just one retirement before the final race and that makes things closer than they really were.

The Ducati for 2016 and 2017 has had enarmous engine power which was apprent on the circuits with long straights, where typically Ducati dominated. Their chassis has been poor and that troubles the tyres more. Except for engine power, there wasn't much life in those Ducatis.

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by GPR-A » Wed May 16, 2018 4:42 pm

Nonserviam85 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:14 pm
So he is a two-hit wonder. Which by itself contradicts your one-hit wonder argument...
One hit wonder in two stints. You can call him two-hit wonder by that cumulative definition.
Nonserviam85 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:14 pm
According to you logic Schumacher is the greatest right? Can you claim though that he was greatest than Senna?
I am not sure about you, but for me, Schumacher was definitely greater than Senna. There are a list of attributes that I consider for such an opinion.
Nonserviam85 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:14 pm
Stoner will always be considered one of the Greats because he simply did something that no one else could replicate (or even come close).
And couldn't repeat it in the next 3 attempts! That's fluke.

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by digitalrurouni » Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Yeah it seems Ducati's predominant problem of understeering mid corner still exists. I ride bikes but I can't understand that lol. In a car I get understeer but in a bike it's hard for me to comprehend though I ride them!

Rossi had that problem it seemed when he was at Ducati. Stoner had that problem before that and the front would want to fold and he would ride around that successfully. Same thing Lorenzo is facing. Though Iannone and Dovi I have to say sort of have figured out the bike somewhat!

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Re: 2018 FIM Moto GP World Championship

Post by NathanOlder » Wed May 16, 2018 5:44 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:48 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:06 pm
Yeah it would have been a completely different story if Dovi didnt screw up at Phillip Island. He lost something like 20pts to MM that day, then on the final day in Valencia Dovi dropped it in the gravel trying to do the impossible and that was after MM fell off and stayed on it all in the same corner in only a way MM can do it. So it WAS close. and could have easily gone the other way.
MM had 3 retirements before the final race, where Dovi had an off at an insignificant time, by which time he had lost the title. Dovi had just one retirement before the final race and that makes things closer than they really were.
But MM is guaranteed to fall off pretty much every weekend, thats how he is so fast. Dovi is way more controlled. So his 1 off was more out of character than Mm falling off 10 times.
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