Silly Season 2018/2019

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Dazed1
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Dazed1 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:23 am

zeph wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:49 pm
Toto Wolff talked about loyalty, so I think Bottas is probably gonna stay put. Imagine, if his tire hadn’t exploded in Baku, the championship would look like this: HAM 88, BOT 83, VET 76.
I agree on Bottas. Merc's first priority is WCC, and Bottas brings just the right amount of talent to score big points without getting into a Ham/Ros scenario. ;)

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Manoah2u » Thu May 17, 2018 9:04 am

Don't really agree there.

I think Bottas did well last year, as his first year transition into a more demanding team with a very, very competitive opponent/teammate.

As for this this year though, i'm unimpressed. Hamilton from the get-go clearly is in a slum, a low, and even then Bottas didn't beat/crush him. He was at best similar, but more rather still behind him. Baku could/should have seen him won that race, so yeah, unfortunate, and unlucky. But even then, that happens throughout the season and let's face it, all have been rather unlucky still.
Think about this too; if the clash between Max and Danny didn't happen, would Bottas have had a real chance on the win?
Also, Lewis was rather 'scr*wed' due to a massive tactical fail on Merc's side. Hamilton should have been in front, not behind (if i recall the race correctly).
And, DannyRic would, no doubt, had there not been contact with Max and instead of T1 overtaken max, taken him in T2 - which i'm 100% sure would have been a guaranteed pass,
he would in a short time, had Bottas too. And quite frankly, i think Max would have went for it too, and probably also ended up overtaking him, but that's a lot of guessing.

Either way, i'm very unimpressed with Bottas, and much more so in Spain. Lewis had about a full pitstop on him, and Max only was 6 seconds behind him.
At the start too he was also severely unimpressive and Vettel overtook him like taking candy from a baby. Safety car restart after grosturd spin his haas like a retard, and he wasn't nowhere near making an impact or putting Vettel under pressure. It wasn't that the Ferrari was that much better or anyhting, probably vise versa. Hamilton disappeared Schumacher-style on the horizon and Bottas seemingly just sat there cruising about. Bottas only got passed Vettel due to the pitstops and Mercedes' tactics being spot on this time, whilst Ferrari's tactics were a complete miss.

Bottas didn't score 'big points' by 'talent', he scored points because others lost huge points, due to clashes, safety car situations in his favour, the team doing great tactics. That's not where the driver makes an impact, it would have been the same for anyone. Hell, that would have meant the same had ericsson been in the mercedes. Instead, Bottas shows zero hunger and zero 'fury' in his car. He's totally grey, and totally robotic. He doesn't put anybody under pressure not even himself.

And that's exactly why i think he's in danger or should be reconcidered for having the seat. He got lucked fast into the seat by the total unexpected departure of Rosberg.
One might argue Rosberg-Hamilton was a difficult mix, but Rosberg 100% is a league over Bottas. Bottas doesn't remotely put Lew under pressure, Rosberg pushes Lewis further,
and would have had more points than Bottas by now and that means he probably would be in the lead, aswell as that Merc would have more points over Ferrari,
which especially with Ferrari and Renault engines having catched up with Mercedes, talent is much more important.

For this year, Ocon is too inexperienced and needs to mature, but for 2019, i think he could very well be mature enough for a shot at a league up from Force India.
From the get-go, Ocon is fast, impressive, has great speed and skills, but is a tad loose cannon and risky but that's all down to inexperience.
Bottas to me from the get-go has been like he's now; totally grey, totally unimpressive, and in a very fast 2014 williams couldn't even make a dent into a demotivated,
aging, expiring Massa. Not talking down on Massa, but Bottas should be the young gun, and quite frankly, Bottas drives more like he's even older than Massa, Grosjean,
and even less motivated.

He needs to step up his game, but i don't think he can.

Hence i seriously think here's a chance of him being replaced for 2019 by Ocon. Except that Mercedes themselves arent risk-takers, but with more competition, it may force their hand.
Above that though, there has been some rumor, as for a long while now, that Alonso might still have a chance. I think personaly though that's only due to the small possibility Hamilton will not continue with Merc. So i'dexpect Merc to have Alonso as a replacement for Lewis, and then being forced to keep Bottas due to experience within the team. Otherwise, i'd see Bottas being replaced with Ocon, who i'm sure would push Lewis harder and i'm very much sure ocon WOULD go for a battle, Bottas, not so much.
Lastly, i'd hope seeing Alonso replace Bottas but i'm not sure about Mercedes going for a Hamilton-Alonso combo. Then again, both are much more mature now, and it's a totally different team which handles things totally different.

But to summarize; I don't think Bottas is rightly talented for giving Mercedes what they should get at all.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Big Tea » Thu May 17, 2018 11:19 am

You could take the view that a driver who (almost) always gets the car home is just what you need to accompany Hamilton. He keeps out of the way and just gathers 'easy points' if you want to put it that way, but points are points. You get more if you take more risk, but you lose more too.

hemichromis
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by hemichromis » Thu May 17, 2018 11:42 am

Perhaps Mercedes would like a fast unaggressive driver as their number 2. For that, Bottas is perfect.

Bill_Kar
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Bill_Kar » Fri May 18, 2018 1:05 am

Agree with hemichromis.
Mercedes maybe found the equilibrium point. Not so fast and competitive in a season time, as Rosberg, so no problems with keeping Hamilton happy, but fast enough to back him up (Austria last year comes in mind) and helping the team with Constructors' championship. Why would you throw that away?

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Manoah2u » Fri May 18, 2018 1:38 am

Well, let's look at it this way:

If this is the cieling of Bottas' capabilities, this is what you get. It might be enough, and indeed, give some rest and calmth @ the team.
On the other hand, let's concider Ocon, when matured a bit more, has a higher operating cieling than Bottas has - in other words, Ocon can beat him 'raw'.

Now you have an option: you can virtually put that same Bottas' celing on Ocon, by turning one driver of the 2 in the clear number 2 driver after a certain amount of races and results.
In other words, if the competition gets too heated, the (virtual) cieling is put into effect, and there is no problem. You get the same results but it's now in your hands. If you would 'loosen the belt' then Ocon scores better and races better but puts Ham under pressure and it becomes a risky situation possibly.

But again, you - theoretically- have this under control. Again, for comparison, Bottas never was able to get to that level as he's simply not as 'raw fast'.

BUT, all of that being said, there's some stuff offcourse with that and i'm aware that's what you guys are aiming at;
Bottas is calm and accepts the role, and there really is no issue at all.
as for Ocon, well - i'm very much aware that he surely won't be as 'mellow' as Bottas like that. In other words, he probably won't accept being 'Nr2', so now it's out of your hands again.

tough decisions, that's for sure. Anyway, it's not like i'm opposite of Bottas. He's just not impressed me this year yet. It's a long road ahead still.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

zeph
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by zeph » Fri May 18, 2018 4:52 am

If it wasn’t for an exploding tire in Baku, Bottas would be just 3 points behind Hamilton, 7 points ahead of Vettel, and a contender for the title. To me it seems he has shown up at every race so far this year.

zeph
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by zeph » Fri May 18, 2018 7:43 pm

Just want to add another thought, I think Bottas is a bit like Jenson Button. He doesn’t look very spectacular, but he is perfectly capable of winning races or even the championship. Both strike me as “more-than-just-number-two” drivers; not quite a Hamilton or Alonso, but certainly top drivers in their own right.

adrianjordan
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by adrianjordan » Wed May 23, 2018 10:30 pm

Just a left-field thought.... Danny Ric to Renault...in exchange for Sainz back to RBR family.

They're preparing for a championship push in the next couple of seasons, so why not assume they would be interested in having a young, fast, hungry driver to lead the team.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Neno
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Neno » Wed May 23, 2018 11:01 pm

adrianjordan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:30 pm
Just a left-field thought.... Danny Ric to Renault...in exchange for Sainz back to RBR family.

They're preparing for a championship push in the next couple of seasons, so why not assume they would be interested in having a young, fast, hungry driver to lead the team.
That's a big leap of faith for Danny. Probably bigger than when Lewis left Mclaren for Mercedes. Not sure he has those balls. My guess is he wants to drive a car for title already starting next year. And Renault barring miracle isnt going deliver it maybe till new regs.

Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Big Tea » Wed May 23, 2018 11:48 pm

adrianjordan wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:30 pm
Just a left-field thought.... Danny Ric to Renault...in exchange for Sainz back to RBR family.

They're preparing for a championship push in the next couple of seasons, so why not assume they would be interested in having a young, fast, hungry driver to lead the team.
I think, at least for the next few years, if Red Bull have the Renault engine, they are going to finish higher than Renault.
If they have the Honda engine, Red Bull obviously think they are going to finish higher than Renault, so as above.

Which ever way he looks at it, I doubt he would see it as an improvement to go to Renault yet.