2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

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Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by Big Tea » Wed May 16, 2018 11:16 pm

ian_s wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:13 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:22 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:39 am


That could be, I too still don't fully understand the VSC rules, or at least how they are being checked/implemented. But still, to loose 3 seconds behind a backmarker (Stroll was getting lapped there) where you normally have a blue flag and they even have to move out of the way, is a bit exorbitant. Maybe you should be allowed past a backmarker even under VSC (if your 40% is faster then the backmarkers 40%). If indeed that wass the reason of Max being stuck there and loosing time.
I agree with that. One should be allowed to past a backmarker even under VSC.
thats not a bad idea, just have some different flags in the zones around the cause of the VSC to protect the marshalls, the rest of the track overtaking could be allowed. either that or penalise people outside a 1% of the delta. these are some of the best drivers in the world (yes, even Stroll!) they should be able to lap within 1 second of the delta, not stroll along 3 seconds off.
To make that fair though everyone would have to be allowed to pass the same cars before the race restarted.
You could then even get lapped cars passing lapped twice cars and the race ending on time.

They could allow all lapped cars to 'lose' a lap and come through the pitlane at restart or similar, but the restart line would have to be moved
Can I make a 3D printer on my 3D printer?

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by Bill_Kar » Wed May 16, 2018 11:21 pm

Let's suppose for a minute that rumours floating the motorsport world are true.
An interesting question is: Did Ferrari agree for the regulation changes in exchange for leaving their car as it is, or did they agree under pressure by FIA not to expose them as an illegal car?
What do you think?

dans79
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by dans79 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:14 am

Bill_Kar wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:21 pm
Let's suppose for a minute that rumours floating the motorsport world are true.
An interesting question is: Did Ferrari agree for the regulation changes in exchange for leaving their car as it is, or did they agree under pressure by FIA not to expose them as an illegal car?
What do you think?
It would have to be the later, because if it was the prior and it ever came out, one of the other top teams would sue the crap out of the FIA and win!

GPR-A
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by GPR-A » Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 am

Bill_Kar wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:21 pm
Let's suppose for a minute that rumours floating the motorsport world are true.
An interesting question is: Did Ferrari agree for the regulation changes in exchange for leaving their car as it is, or did they agree under pressure by FIA not to expose them as an illegal car?
What do you think?
What is the rumor?

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by Bill_Kar » Thu May 17, 2018 5:44 am

GPR-A wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 am
Bill_Kar wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:21 pm
Let's suppose for a minute that rumours floating the motorsport world are true.
An interesting question is: Did Ferrari agree for the regulation changes in exchange for leaving their car as it is, or did they agree under pressure by FIA not to expose them as an illegal car?
What do you think?
What is the rumor?
I mean that people were suspicious that Ferrari suddenly agree to the regulation changes of 2019 & 2021 when they were clearly against. And this implies that there is a deal with FIA under the table.
And if we accept that there is some wrong going in that car, my hypothetical question is what kind of deal would it be.

@dans I believe so too. It would be too much to cover them up when there is such intense speculation already.

zibby43
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by zibby43 » Thu May 17, 2018 8:00 am

Diesel wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:48 pm
All the major news outlets were quick to publish headline articles when it was suggested Pirelli were assisting Mercedes, but this is being kept fairly quiet, even this very website still has the original headlines... :roll:
So very true. I noticed that as well. Motorsport at least picked up on it.

zibby43
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by zibby43 » Thu May 17, 2018 8:10 am

GPR-A wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 am
What is the rumor?
There is a paddock rumor that Ferrari were caught red-handed running an illegal battery/energy store setup that had provided them extra power deployment for 4 races.

FIA asked Ferrari to spill the beans on their energy store elements in Baku. FIA then discovered that Ferrari were deploying more power than allowed under the rules.

Although Ferrari ran the car illegally, the FIA agreed to not come down on Ferrari so long as they caved on and agreed to the last-minute 2019 regulation changes (changes Ferrari were initially adamantly against).

Also, Merc was asked to remove a unique cooling solution in the ICE which was discovered by the FIA in Australia. So, Ferrari was capitalizing upon illegal deployment post-Melbourne while Mercedes was trying find a solution to the ICE component they had to remove. Supposedly Merc has begun to claw back after having to adjust.

Full details in the video. Discussion begins around 1:55.


Bill_Kar
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by Bill_Kar » Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 am

zibby43 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:10 am
GPR-A wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 am
What is the rumor?
Although Ferrari ran the car illegally, the FIA agreed to not come down on Ferrari so long as they caved on and agreed to the last-minute 2019 regulation changes (changes Ferrari were initially adamantly against).
But do they get to keep the battery trick? My understanding is no.

zibby43
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by zibby43 » Thu May 17, 2018 9:11 am

Bill_Kar wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 am
But do they get to keep the battery trick? My understanding is no.
You are correct - battery trick is now over/done for Ferrari.

I definitely should have articulated that better. The FIA decided to not punish for Ferrari for the races they were running an illegal car in exchange for Ferrari 1) ending the improper deployment going forward and 2) agreeing to the 2019 regulation changes.

Thank you for catching that!

marvin78
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by marvin78 » Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 am

And again rumors seem to be facts here. Don't mix it.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by Manoah2u » Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 am

Probably not, but that doesn't mean that in all reality, they should probably be DSQ for running illegal cars. Which would cost huge points in the WCC (and WDC) standings.
And would thus seriously impact the season results. So since that's far from what FIA wants, they decided to pressurise Ferrari into this deal.
Surely also has to do with the fact that Ferrari suddenly 'swallowed' their words bout leaving F1.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by Manoah2u » Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 am

marvin78 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 am
And again rumors seem to be facts here. Don't mix it.
you mean like Schumacher's 'rumoured' illegal car with which he won the WDC ? :!: :wink:
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ferkan
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by ferkan » Thu May 17, 2018 9:27 am

Isn't burning oil for combustion pretty much same thing cheating wise? These cars are capped at 105kg of fuel at any given point, therefore burning more (we are talking about kilos 2 years ago) is straight cheating as well. Oh and Ferrari's fuel pump thingey that avoided FIA's fuel sensor as well back in 2016 I think...

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by Bill_Kar » Thu May 17, 2018 9:51 am

zibby43 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:11 am
Bill_Kar wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 am
But do they get to keep the battery trick? My understanding is no.
You are correct - battery trick is now over/done for Ferrari.

I definitely should have articulated that better. The FIA decided to not punish for Ferrari for the races they were running an illegal car in exchange for Ferrari 1) ending the improper deployment going forward and 2) agreeing to the 2019 regulation changes.

Thank you for catching that!
Don't mention it!
It should be really interesting how things will evolve now, especially in terms of Ferrari's car performance.
marvin78 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 am
And again rumors seem to be facts here. Don't mix it.
Yes, I totally agree. But the rumours are really intense and Ferrari's passive stance doesn't really help to think otherwise.

LM10
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Re: 2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

Post by LM10 » Thu May 17, 2018 10:20 am

There is no reason in watching F1, if every shift in performance upfront (in this case Ferrari > Mercedes) is explained by cheating. Meaning that the main belief is that other cars can only perform better by having illegal things going on. Why should I watch this sport anymore then? :)

Of course, it can be that Ferrari actually do some tricks with their battery, but it's weird that the initial thought immediately is that they must be cheating because they are faster than Mercedes.

And don't miss the part btw. that Mercedes in fact was about to start the season with an illegal car before FIA banned something in their ICE. So it's not that they also don't try and test out the limits. Just telling because the focus is entirely set on Ferrari and no one even thinks about the possibility of a cheat from Mercedes side. As if Mercedes were the only fair guys out there being angelic in every aspect.