Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

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Big Tea
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by Big Tea » Wed May 23, 2018 6:26 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 7:44 am
So as we all kinda thought, you cant really cheat the VSC, as you HAVE to be behind the delta time as the track goes green,

So is Vettel a super genius and knows something no one else does, or has he just made himself look like a dumb a$$ ?
This is an important distinction here. Behind the virtual safety car ( at the point you are) rather than just dipping behind it for that one sector. What ever else happens, this is going to be the rule for the last sector, so all else goes out the window.

The distinction of being behind the 'ghost car' id not how I envisaged the 'time must be above that of the set delta for the section'. It seems all I have said is rubbish and I fess up to it.
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by strad » Wed May 23, 2018 10:06 pm

Like I said earlier I think they can game it the same way NASCAR drivers game the pit lane speed limit monitors.
You only have to be behind the VSC at certain points and you can speed in between.
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Big Tea
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by Big Tea » Thu May 24, 2018 12:02 am

strad wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:06 pm
Like I said earlier I think they can game it the same way NASCAR drivers game the pit lane speed limit monitors.
You only have to be behind the VSC at certain points and you can speed in between.
But as it says in that article, in the last section before restarting, you have to be behind the position the 'ghost car' would be in. So anything a driver does is immaterial as he still has to be behind this ideal model in the last section.
As others say, he can jump the gun to the last checkpoint, but that is going to be very small even if he gets it dead right. Yes, enough to beat a car out of the pits, but risking a penalty.
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by strad » Thu May 24, 2018 12:09 am

Probably right.
NASCAR runs on speed.
Reckon it would be more like having a cop with a radar gun every so often.
You're all probably right. Vettel is just full of sour grapes. There's probably no way to game the system.
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:43 am

Just read an article and it seems like Vettel was right. Whiting said that he now understands what Vettel was trying to say and that he is correct. It was calculated that you can gain 0.150s a lap through this loophole which is obviously a lot in F1. They are now working on a solution.

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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by miguelbento » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:48 am

MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:43 am
Just read an article and it seems like Vettel was right. Whiting said that he now understands what Vettel was trying to say and that he is correct. It was calculated that you can gain 0.150s a lap through this loophole which is obviously a lot in F1. They are now working on a solution.
Do you have a link for this article? I am interested in knowing what exactly the loophole is.

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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:51 am

miguelbento wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:48 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:43 am
Just read an article and it seems like Vettel was right. Whiting said that he now understands what Vettel was trying to say and that he is correct. It was calculated that you can gain 0.150s a lap through this loophole which is obviously a lot in F1. They are now working on a solution.
Do you have a link for this article? I am interested in knowing what exactly the loophole is.
Here but it's German.
https://de.motorsport.com/f1/news/also- ... h/3121414/

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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by Manoah2u » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:55 pm

http://www.f1i.com/news/307413-whiting- ... phole.html
The FIA is supplying us with a system that makes us follow a delta time," he explained. "But I think everybody’s aware you can have a faster way to go under VSC than just follow the delta – by saving distance

"Yes, I've worked it out now," Whiting said in Montreal. "The calculation that the system does every 50 metres is based on the distance from the timing line.

"If you can shorten that, you can gain tiny fractions.

"The way we've calculated it with our software guys is you can possibly gain about 150 milliseconds," he added. "In Formula 1 that's worth having. But that's the extent of it.

"We can rectify it, and make it a bit more bulletproof," he conceded.
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by dhoodhat » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:20 pm

Software company and Charlie now say Vettel was correct can be manipulated to about half second. Will try to close of loophole. Vettels not the idiot you make him out to be.

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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:10 am

0.150 is not much for a race lap, Its hardly worth even bothering about. A tenth is Qualy is a decent chunk, but a race lap under VSC, You can gain way more than that by being ready to go when the VSC ends.
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by iotar__ » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:13 am

dhoodhat wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:20 pm
Software company and Charlie now say Vettel was correct can be manipulated to about half second. Will try to close of loophole. Vettels not the idiot you make him out to be.
- See the quotes above, we're talking 150 milliseconds per lap
- I doubt he figured it out himself (not a bad thing), he voiced it publicly which matters of course.
- it wasn't so obvious as some people claimed
- I don't think anyone claimed Vettel was "an idiot". I think it was a case of when I lose a bit it's a bad thing when I gain a lot from SC it's not a problem,
- there are still huge gains from randomness of VSC, SC and =P~ other things =P~ drivers don't deserve like in Australia that are worth more than 150 miliseconds. Why don't they fix that, huh?

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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by Big Tea » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:19 am

Is that discrepancy per lap, or per sector? Marshaling sector that is, not section of lap?
It could be a nice gain if it is every 50mtr.
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:22 am

If it were per marshal sector of 50m then you could gain 21 seconds a lap around Spa :lol:
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by Phil » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:40 am

dhoodhat wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:20 pm
Software company and Charlie now say Vettel was correct can be manipulated to about half second. Will try to close of loophole. Vettels not the idiot you make him out to be.
Who made him out as an idiot? If anything, i’d rate Vettel as one of the most intelligent drivers on the grid (and that is coming from a Hamilton fan too!). No other driver knows the (technical) rules as well as he does. He proved it once again in Australia with the safety car under VSC but also earlier when he was taking the positioningvof his car at the start to the extreme (like being outside his box) etc. i never doubted that if he says there is some loophole under VSC that there actually is one.
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Re: Vettel says VSC delta has a loophole

Post by Zynerji » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:40 pm

Phil wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:40 am
dhoodhat wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:20 pm
Software company and Charlie now say Vettel was correct can be manipulated to about half second. Will try to close of loophole. Vettels not the idiot you make him out to be.
Who made him out as an idiot? If anything, i’d rate Vettel as one of the most intelligent drivers on the grid (and that is coming from a Hamilton fan too!). No other driver knows the (technical) rules as well as he does. He proved it once again in Australia with the safety car under VSC but also earlier when he was taking the positioningvof his car at the start to the extreme (like being outside his box) etc. i never doubted that if he says there is some loophole under VSC that there actually is one.
Passing 2 cars in the China pit lane was a great example of Vettel knowing the rules, and instantly applying actions within the framework.

PS: Vet took a lot of engineering classes while at RBR so he could communicate with his engineers at a high level. He is ALWAYS checking out the opposing cars aero. (He even called the RBR barge boards a copy of the Ferrari solution).

I honestly wouldn't count out Seb sitting at a design desk with a CAD operator working up his own ideas. He may, in fact, be more of a Newey prodigy that Promadou!