Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

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Who will have the better car in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda?

Poll ended at Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:59 pm

1. McLaren-Renault
76
72%
2. STR-Honda
29
28%
 
Total votes: 105

tok-tokkie
20
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:21 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by tok-tokkie » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:18 am

Only now is the comparison valid. McL had trouble getting their nose passed. Now it has passed so they have their complete aero package on the car. Sure they need to fine tune it but previously the aero was incomplete.

Up until now McL have been in the lead – qualifying tended to be McL – TR – McL – TR. The last TR was Hartley. But now (Canada) TR have the new Honda engine (only for Hartley as Gasley’s engine had to be swopped out so he used the original engine for qualy). Yet Hartley qualified 12 whereas Alonso only 14 & Gasley was right up with the McL even though he has an old engine. This qualy was TR – McL – McL – TR which is inconclusive but we know that Gasley usually qualifies many places ahead of Hartley. McL were spared complete exposure through Gasley’s misfortune.

McL is hopelessly slow compared to the other Renault engine cars. Clearly they have a problem that is not engine related. The Renault team was best of the rest in this qualifying. Toro Rosso seem to be ahead and it does not look like it is because of the Honda engine.

I voted that TR would out perform McL this season. It seems to be heading that way.

AJI
20
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:08 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by AJI » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:30 am

tok-tokkie wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:18 am
...Toro Rosso seem to be ahead and it does not look like it is because of the Honda engine...
IMO the opposite is suggested due to the gain being only for Hartley. No..?

McHonda
10
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by McHonda » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 am

Shock horror STR repeat Bahrain performance in next track that is slow corners and straights.

They have very good traction and low downforce set up and the straights aren't long enough to expose deployment deficiency unlike China and Baku. On these types of tracks STR will lead until McLaren fix their traction and straight line issues.

AJI
20
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:08 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by AJI » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:28 pm

McHonda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 am
Shock horror STR repeat Bahrain performance in next track that is slow corners and straights.

They have very good traction and low downforce set up and the straights aren't long enough to expose deployment deficiency unlike China and Baku. On these types of tracks STR will lead until McLaren fix their traction and straight line issues.
I don't get it. Are you pro-Honda or pro-McLaren? I assumed Honda more than Maca..?
Honda introduced a significant upgrade and it worked (well, one of the PU's worked), but it's great!

McHonda
10
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by McHonda » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:47 pm

AJI wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:28 pm
McHonda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 am
Shock horror STR repeat Bahrain performance in next track that is slow corners and straights.

They have very good traction and low downforce set up and the straights aren't long enough to expose deployment deficiency unlike China and Baku. On these types of tracks STR will lead until McLaren fix their traction and straight line issues.
I don't get it. Are you pro-Honda or pro-McLaren? I assumed Honda more than Maca..?
Honda introduced a significant upgrade and it worked (well, one of the PU's worked), but it's great!
It's not a significant upgrade for qualifying according to Hartley.

I'm pro-both. I'm just anti a certain fairytale peddling thread on here which has done more harm than good because of those fairytales so I don't believe in any overly optimistic promises and only deal in what Honda actually say as they are by far the most open manufacturer.

Soichiro
13
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:14 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by Soichiro » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:56 pm

McHonda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 am
Shock horror STR repeat Bahrain performance in next track that is slow corners and straights.

They have very good traction and low downforce set up and the straights aren't long enough to expose deployment deficiency unlike China and Baku. On these types of tracks STR will lead until McLaren fix their traction and straight line issues.
Have you also connected Toro Rosso's results with the ambient and track temperatures? Have you noticed that below 20 C they somehow suck? There was a statement (not sure it came from Honda) early in season they also don't have special mappings for air temperatures below 20. Add to that not warming up tyres enough and there you have this up/down trends.

Maybe things are a bit more complex than they seem.

McHonda
10
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:33 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by McHonda » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:04 pm

Soichiro wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:56 pm
McHonda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 am
Shock horror STR repeat Bahrain performance in next track that is slow corners and straights.

They have very good traction and low downforce set up and the straights aren't long enough to expose deployment deficiency unlike China and Baku. On these types of tracks STR will lead until McLaren fix their traction and straight line issues.
Have you also connected Toro Rosso's results with the ambient and track temperatures? Have you noticed that below 20 C they somehow suck? There was a statement (not sure it came from Honda) early in season they also don't have special mappings for air temperatures below 20. Add to that not warming up tyres enough and there you have this up/down trends.

Maybe things are a bit more complex than they seem.
They always are but the strength in Bahrain and Canada is hard to ignore. These types of tracks are obviously a strong point. Hartley talked about the deployment deficiency on the longer China and Baku straights.

Slow corners and medium straights seem to suit the package down to the ground. Great traction and acceleration.

techman
-4
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by techman » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:12 pm

t's not a significant upgrade for qualifying according to Hartley.

I'm pro-both. I'm just anti a certain fairytale peddling thread on here which has done more harm than good because of those fairytales so I don't believe in any overly optimistic promises and only deal in what Honda actually say as they are by far the most open manufacturer.
brendon never is good at qualifying, in fp3 monaco he did really well and come q1 he was slower than his fp3. again in canada q1 was good and went it came to crunch time. he lost it and was slower than his q1 time. this dude is not a racer and slow driver. belive me if tr had an experience driver, even kyatt. hartly would have being gone out now. gasly also a rookie but better than that bum.
it the replace hartly with pascal, which i did see him in canada, i believe tr has a good shot of getting more points end of this season to mclaren. but i also hope tr rate of development improve because they tend to go down hill. they dont have a mclaren budget

rogazilla
4
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:35 pm

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by rogazilla » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:00 pm

The fact that Hartley qualified faster than Alonso should speak well to the upgrade. There was no known aero upgrade in Canada and we saw in qualifying the difference between the old PU and new PU. Track may fit STR car better here than China or Baku but as far as PU improvement, it is pretty clear on paper.

roon
229
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by roon » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:53 pm

I voted STR but we should recognize that McLaren currently have more than double the CC points STR do. Barring fluke high finishes it will be difficult to make up a 111% deficit.

Andres125sx
273
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by Andres125sx » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 am

roon wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:53 pm
I voted STR but we should recognize that McLaren currently have more than double the CC points STR do. Barring fluke high finishes it will be difficult to make up a 111% deficit.
And that´s after the lucky race in Bahrein where STR performed great, but was also extremely lucky to perform on a race where both RBR and one Ferrari DNFs so Gasly finished 4th wich provided the vast mayority of points STR has scored in the whole season

techman
-4
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by techman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:57 am

if anyone would have told me toro rosso would be able to catch and pass mclaren i would have laughed. as we know toro rosso doesnt have the development rate of mclaren and with two new rookies. one rookie hartley is struggling to score. but now it look the it might be possible to catch mclaren and pass them. so keenly watching this

santos
21
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by santos » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:49 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 am
roon wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:53 pm
I voted STR but we should recognize that McLaren currently have more than double the CC points STR do. Barring fluke high finishes it will be difficult to make up a 111% deficit.
And that´s after the lucky race in Bahrein where STR performed great, but was also extremely lucky to perform on a race where both RBR and one Ferrari DNFs so Gasly finished 4th wich provided the vast mayority of points STR has scored in the whole season
Yeah, but Mclaren finished the race with both cars on the points due to the retirements of Ferrari and Red Bull.

adrianjordan
41
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by adrianjordan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:58 am

AJI wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:28 pm
McHonda wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 am
Shock horror STR repeat Bahrain performance in next track that is slow corners and straights.

They have very good traction and low downforce set up and the straights aren't long enough to expose deployment deficiency unlike China and Baku. On these types of tracks STR will lead until McLaren fix their traction and straight line issues.
I don't get it. Are you pro-Honda or pro-McLaren? I assumed Honda more than Maca..?
Honda introduced a significant upgrade and it worked (well, one of the PU's worked), but it's great!
Why does someone have to choose? Can’t we support both?
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Andres125sx
273
User avatar
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Poll: who will be ahead in 2018, McLaren-Renault or STR-Honda

Post by Andres125sx » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:45 pm

santos wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:49 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 am
roon wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:53 pm
I voted STR but we should recognize that McLaren currently have more than double the CC points STR do. Barring fluke high finishes it will be difficult to make up a 111% deficit.
And that´s after the lucky race in Bahrein where STR performed great, but was also extremely lucky to perform on a race where both RBR and one Ferrari DNFs so Gasly finished 4th wich provided the vast mayority of points STR has scored in the whole season
Yeah, but Mclaren finished the race with both cars on the points due to the retirements of Ferrari and Red Bull.
True, I was assuming the higher position of Gasly did benefit him more, but since McLaren scored 6+4 points instead of 1+0 that´s not the case actually :)