2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
LM10
13
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by LM10 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm

Delta to overtake was at 2 seconds in Canada. That's pretty much and explains why it was kind of impossible for the top 3 teams to overtake each other since they more or less are evenly matched. HS is 1.1 seconds faster than SS, but that's still way off the needed 2 seconds. Old SS vs. fresh HS might have worked, but teams are intelligent and experienced enough not to allow this.

The part I don't understand is how the delta in Canada can be higher than the one in Melbourne which was at 1.8 seconds?

Harvester
0
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by Harvester » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:28 pm

LM10 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm
Delta to overtake was at 2 seconds in Canada. That's pretty much and explains why it was kind of impossible for the top 3 teams to overtake each other since they more or less are evenly matched. HS is 1.1 seconds faster than SS, but that's still way off the needed 2 seconds. Old SS vs. fresh HS might have worked, but teams are intelligent and experienced enough not to allow this.

The part I don't understand is how the delta in Canada can be higher than the one in Melbourne which was at 1.8 seconds?
Can you or someone else just briefly explain how do you calculate delta to overtake.

Vanja #66
263
User avatar
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm
Location: BGD, SRB

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by Vanja #66 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 pm

It isn't calculated, it's reported to be 2s by drivers.

notsofast
6
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:56 am

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by notsofast » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:54 pm

What would the results have been if this "delta" were zero? I don't think Vettel was holding up anyone, and neither was Bottas. The podium would have been the same.

LM10
13
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by LM10 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:27 am

Harvester wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:28 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm
Delta to overtake was at 2 seconds in Canada. That's pretty much and explains why it was kind of impossible for the top 3 teams to overtake each other since they more or less are evenly matched. HS is 1.1 seconds faster than SS, but that's still way off the needed 2 seconds. Old SS vs. fresh HS might have worked, but teams are intelligent and experienced enough not to allow this.

The part I don't understand is how the delta in Canada can be higher than the one in Melbourne which was at 1.8 seconds?
Can you or someone else just briefly explain how do you calculate delta to overtake.
I just read it in an article from AMuS. And they most probably heard it from the teams/drivers, like Vanja indicated.

LM10
13
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by LM10 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:13 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3kbxjBAYmM

Having watched that, I realized what I missed in Canada and miss generally. :)

That's game on right there. And this genius moment from both when they got to the DRS-detection line was just amazing.
There's no driver who would be bored or would lose motivation with such racing going on. Not to mention fans.

On the other hand, I must admit that I also would miss today's beasts in Qualifying. :)

zac510
32
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:58 am

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by zac510 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:29 pm

Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 pm
It isn't calculated, it's reported to be 2s by drivers.
Perhaps it could be calculated by looking at the sector times of the passing driver before and after the pass, excluding sectors where the driver was held up (ie <2 seconds). Then taking an average from all overtakes through the race. Mightn’t be enough samples from last weekend's race, however!

gg_ss
0
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by gg_ss » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:10 pm

I believe the root of the problem is that all the teams have access to too much data. Races are not being won on track alone instead they are being won on strategy simulations, crunching the numbers to conclude how slow they can drive to still win it and make the tires last as much as possible. In my opinion they should have only 1 practice session so that they are not able to collect all the data which they are able to accumulate right now. Force teams to go racing, right now we are not seeing racing. Teams are just driving to the delta to meet the optimum strategy.

Another issue is the allowance of components for a whole season, fuel limit and what not. Teams are constantly in saving mode. They need to address these restrictions, teams won't go racing when they know racing will hurt there chances of winning the championship.

falonso81
0
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:29 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by falonso81 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:44 pm

Very late asking this but did the stewards said anything about the drivers that ruined Vettels last lap in Q2?

foxmulder_ms
1
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by foxmulder_ms » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:58 pm

falonso81 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:44 pm
Very late asking this but did the stewards said anything about the drivers that ruined Vettels last lap in Q2?

Well, more like, Ferrari race engineers ruined that specific lap.

LM10
13
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by LM10 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:07 pm

They were not going to finish the fast lap anyway. If the top teams have tyres left they go on track and practice a hot lap on the softest compound for the last time before it gets serious in Q3. Hamilton, Bottas and Kimi, all three slowed down significantly right before finish line.

Hammerfist
1
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:18 am

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by Hammerfist » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:24 am

LM10 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm
Delta to overtake was at 2 seconds in Canada. That's pretty much and explains why it was kind of impossible for the top 3 teams to overtake each other since they more or less are evenly matched. HS is 1.1 seconds faster than SS, but that's still way off the needed 2 seconds. Old SS vs. fresh HS might have worked, but teams are intelligent and experienced enough not to allow this.

The part I don't understand is how the delta in Canada can be higher than the one in Melbourne which was at 1.8 seconds?
That doesn't seem right. There were some overtakes down the field which didn't necessitate that delta. TR overtook Haas, Force India. Alonso almost and should have overtaken Leclerc... No way the delta was really 2 seconds. All those cars I've mentioned were also on the same tires too.

johnny vee
2
User avatar
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:03 am

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by johnny vee » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:44 am

gg_ss wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:10 pm
I believe the root of the problem is that all the teams have access to too much data. Races are not being won on track alone instead they are being won on strategy simulations, crunching the numbers to conclude how slow they can drive to still win it and make the tires last as much as possible. In my opinion they should have only 1 practice session so that they are not able to collect all the data which they are able to accumulate right now. Force teams to go racing, right now we are not seeing racing. Teams are just driving to the delta to meet the optimum strategy.

Another issue is the allowance of components for a whole season, fuel limit and what not. Teams are constantly in saving mode. They need to address these restrictions, teams won't go racing when they know racing will hurt there chances of winning the championship.
I totally 100% agree!
"Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now." The Oracle, Matrix Reloaded

GPR-A
149
User avatar
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by GPR-A » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:50 am

Hammerfist wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:24 am
LM10 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm
Delta to overtake was at 2 seconds in Canada. That's pretty much and explains why it was kind of impossible for the top 3 teams to overtake each other since they more or less are evenly matched. HS is 1.1 seconds faster than SS, but that's still way off the needed 2 seconds. Old SS vs. fresh HS might have worked, but teams are intelligent and experienced enough not to allow this.

The part I don't understand is how the delta in Canada can be higher than the one in Melbourne which was at 1.8 seconds?
That doesn't seem right. There were some overtakes down the field which didn't necessitate that delta. TR overtook Haas, Force India. Alonso almost and should have overtaken Leclerc... No way the delta was really 2 seconds. All those cars I've mentioned were also on the same tires too.
The difference comes from many factors.
1.Downforce and mechanical grip difference between top and mid field. More downforce and good mechanical grip, faster get away from the hair pin and also more turbulence for the following car, causing lack of grip.
2.Difference in top speeds in race conditions. Faster speed on straight takes the leading car away in the overtaking zone.
3.Tire degradation difference between top and mid field.

I am sure you can add more. Even with lower performance delta, mid field cars can overtake because they are tucked behind each other closely and the DRS advantage is relatively much higher.

LM10
13
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 8-10

Post by LM10 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:45 pm

A little information (from AMuS) on the PU upgrades brought to Canada:

Renault: 20 hp (However, Redbull was and for now is able to only use 12 hp because of another fuel specification. It's expected them to modify it until Hungary.)

Honda: 20 hp

Ferrari: 10 hp (Reportedly about 20 hp was planned, but they decided to go with 10 hp to be safe regarding reliability. Does anyone know wether they will increase the power output step by step or wait for Spec 3?)

Mercedes: Will be an upgrade of about 10 hp as well