Qualifying format idea

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f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Qualifying format idea

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I should start by saying I like current qualifying and don’t have any problem with it; but I was wondering how you could organically encourage the development of aerodynamics that function well in ‘dirty’ air, so wondered if this might do it:

- cars are lined up at the end of the pits and have to leave at certain defined intervals, but close together

- on their out laps, they have to drive to a delta - like on VSC - until they get to the final corner from which they can start to push

- this means everyone starts their laps relatively close to another car; the faster ones will likely have to overtake someone but everyone will have to deal with a certain amount of ‘dirty air’

- this therefore encourages cars that work well in these conditions - even more so since if you don’t do a good job in quali you’ll need to make up places in the race

- it has the added benefits of being: i. ‘exciting’ with overtakes ii. Unpredictable with mistakes more likely iii. And where the driver skill in managing the traffic will really make a difference

- you could potentially have two runs each part of quali but equally could just have a one part quali with all the cars in throughout and hence something like six runs



I haven’t fully thought it through from angles yet, but it occurred to me that if you reduce the advantages of having w car that runs well in ‘ideal’ conditions - with no traffic - and reward cars that overtake easily and can manage the wake of another car, you push car development in that direction.

Interested to hear thoughts.

Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Qualifying format idea

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How do you decide on the running order out of the pits? Random selection - numbers out of a hat?
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: Qualifying format idea

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how would you order the cars.

if you put it fastest cars first it would be much different to how it is now
if you put slow cars first it would be chaos as everyone catches the slowest car and has to overtake
if you go for a random order you might as well do away with qualification and just do a random order grid.
also if you line up cars it can be abused.

say it was a fastest draw. based of the last race both Ferrari in front vet gets away easy no issues. but title on the line so kimi is told to make a few mistakes pushing ham into his dirty air and extremely compromising his lap.

slowest first could allow team politics to take over if say a Ferrari was stuck behind a merc powered customer team while they get out of the way for Merc

Fulcrum
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 18:05

Re: Qualifying format idea

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Unlikely to work as intended if you consider Ferrari would be all over their comms to Haas and Sauber. Likewise Red Bull with Toro Rosso; likewise Mercedes with Force India and Williams.

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JonoNic
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Joined: 05 Mar 2015, 15:54

Re: Qualifying format idea

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Maybe it should be more complicated... Do this idea twice in the same qualifying session (f1316's idea). Then just reverse the order of the cars in the second run. The driver with the lowest average time takes poles. Most likely being first or last in the run will benefit them the most. It will certainly make for lots of discussions here.
Always find the gap then use it.

NL_Fer
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Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Qualifying format idea

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We are talking about 1s distance to make this work, this is real close.

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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Qualifying format idea

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Qualifying is the ONE THING in F1 that is perfect. Please don't break it!

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JonoNic
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Joined: 05 Mar 2015, 15:54

Re: Qualifying format idea

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Zynerji wrote:Qualifying is the ONE THING in F1 that is perfect. Please don't break it!
We don't decide that. So this is just a discussion
Always find the gap then use it.

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Redragon
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 12:23

Re: Qualifying format idea

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why not a shoot out as cyclism? or sky? you go on the order you finish last grand prix and there is only a single driver on the track, he has a outlap and a fast lap, then the next one. until you complete all the drivers, then a second round with the order finished on the first try out. On this way public have some fun as well as teams are not preserving tyres.

f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Qualifying format idea

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Redragon wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 17:35
why not a shoot out as cyclism? or sky? you go on the order you finish last grand prix and there is only a single driver on the track, he has a outlap and a fast lap, then the next one. until you complete all the drivers, then a second round with the order finished on the first try out. On this way public have some fun as well as teams are not preserving tyres.
They tried this (if i’m understanding your suggestion) in single lap qualifying - it was pretty boring.

Plus my point here was really not to try and ‘fix’ qualifying - like I say, I really don’t have any problem with it - it was a continuation of a thought on how to encourage aerodynamics to develop in a way that is beneficial for driving in traffic. Right now, it’s a net positive to have a car that works perfectly in clean air even if it struggles in wake - but what if you change the conditions of a race weekend so that you’re primarily driving in traffic? Then surely the cars will have to be developed in ways that produce consistent downforce regardless of turbulence.

f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Qualifying format idea

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Fulcrum wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 12:56
Unlikely to work as intended if you consider Ferrari would be all over their comms to Haas and Sauber. Likewise Red Bull with Toro Rosso; likewise Mercedes with Force India and Williams.
I mean, team orders were outlawed before - presumably inter-team orders could be? Of course there are codes etc. but I think it could be reasonably effectively policed.

f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Qualifying format idea

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marmer wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 12:02
how would you order the cars.

if you put it fastest cars first it would be much different to how it is now
if you put slow cars first it would be chaos as everyone catches the slowest car and has to overtake
if you go for a random order you might as well do away with qualification and just do a random order grid.
also if you line up cars it can be abused.

say it was a fastest draw. based of the last race both Ferrari in front vet gets away easy no issues. but title on the line so kimi is told to make a few mistakes pushing ham into his dirty air and extremely compromising his lap.

slowest first could allow team politics to take over if say a Ferrari was stuck behind a merc powered customer team while they get out of the way for Merc
I had initially thought a random order would work - I do see your point about how it just adds so much randomness that it becomes a lottery, but equally, people generally seem to think that cars should be overtaking each other in races and that just ain’t going to happen if the cars are ordered in terms of fastest to slowest - you can’t overtake a car unless you’re faster than them.

Also, it’s not just a completely random grid order as, although it would be much harder with a slower car in front, you do have a change to do a better job than your competitors, so some extent of your fate is in your own hands.

So I guess some element of randomness is good for the majority of fans; from a purely personal point of view, I liked refuelling and the strategic element that came with it - i’m not that bothered if people get ahead through pit stops rather than on track - but that’s a different story altogether.

Fulcrum
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 18:05

Re: Qualifying format idea

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f1316 wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 18:36
Fulcrum wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 12:56
Unlikely to work as intended if you consider Ferrari would be all over their comms to Haas and Sauber. Likewise Red Bull with Toro Rosso; likewise Mercedes with Force India and Williams.
I mean, team orders were outlawed before - presumably inter-team orders could be? Of course there are codes etc. but I think it could be reasonably effectively policed.
As with the Ocon situation in Monaco, I doubt there is an effective policing mechanism for this sort of situation.

f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Qualifying format idea

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Fulcrum wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 19:49
f1316 wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 18:36
Fulcrum wrote:
23 Jun 2018, 12:56
Unlikely to work as intended if you consider Ferrari would be all over their comms to Haas and Sauber. Likewise Red Bull with Toro Rosso; likewise Mercedes with Force India and Williams.
I mean, team orders were outlawed before - presumably inter-team orders could be? Of course there are codes etc. but I think it could be reasonably effectively policed.
As with the Ocon situation in Monaco, I doubt there is an effective policing mechanism for this sort of situation.
Well it’s not illegal now, so no one was policing Ocon situation in Monaco. If it was, I think they could, maybe i’m wrong.

Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Qualifying format idea

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ANOTHER suggestion for qually change?! the one thing that is pretty perfect in f1?!
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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