2021 Engine thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
roon
256
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:15 pm

Maybe Porsche/VW/Audi are waiting for front axle kers to be permitted. The 919 & R18 lines only had front axle, never rear axle, kers. They can build an MGUH. They've been racing one for four years. To the extent that it would have been considered to motor, I wonder if they ever used it to control backpressure to help spool the primary unassisted turbo.

wuzak
333
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by wuzak » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:53 am

roon wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:15 pm
Maybe Porsche/VW/Audi are waiting for front axle kers to be permitted. The 919 & R18 lines only had front axle, never rear axle, kers. They can build an MGUH. They've been racing one for four years. To the extent that it would have been considered to motor, I wonder if they ever used it to control backpressure to help spool the primary unassisted turbo.
WEC/Le Mans rules only allowed 2 methods of recovering energy. For Porsche it was front wheel MGUK and MGUH on secondary turbine on engine. Audi and Toyota used 4 wheel KERS?

roon
256
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:40 am

wuzak wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:53 am
roon wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:15 pm
Maybe Porsche/VW/Audi are waiting for front axle kers to be permitted. The 919 & R18 lines only had front axle, never rear axle, kers. They can build an MGUH. They've been racing one for four years. To the extent that it would have been considered to motor, I wonder if they ever used it to control backpressure to help spool the primary unassisted turbo.
WEC/Le Mans rules only allowed 2 methods of recovering energy. For Porsche it was front wheel MGUK and MGUH on secondary turbine on engine. Audi and Toyota used 4 wheel KERS?
Audi opted for front-axle KERS and the superior energy density of diesel fuel for the R18 line. Supposedly they tested an MGUH at the beginning of the regulations change, but they did not use it in competition. Toyota were the only LMP1 competitor to use four-wheel KERS.

The R18 competed in the 2MJ, 4MJ, and 6MJ classes in LMP1 over the years, starting with flywheel energy storage before settling upon Li-ion batteries. In the final iteration of the R18, it was shown that a front axle KERS system could be installed in a high-nose narrow-chassis similar to open wheel racing cars:

Image

wuzak
333
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by wuzak » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:26 am

Thanks.

So Audi only used one method of energy recovery?

All wheel drive KERS seems sensible to me, as it should be easy to balance front:rear brake bias for the electric machines with the hydraulic brakes bias.

Unlike rear wheel only KERS, which requires they hydraulic system bias to shift forward.

roon
256
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by roon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:14 am

wuzak wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:26 am
So Audi only used one method of energy recovery?
Correct. LMP1 have more front weight bias, so there is more braking energy available on the front axle compared to F1. I believe their front and rear tires are the same width, so it made sense for both Porsche and Audi to tax the front wheels with e-drive and relieve the rear tires of any additional drive torque, along with the added benefits of installation simplicity and lightness (one 400hp motor likely lighter than two 200hp motors).

saviour stivala
-11
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by saviour stivala » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:24 pm

for LM to get on the wrong side of the current four engine manufacturers would be suicidal.

digitalrurouni
10
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by digitalrurouni » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:04 pm

I am probably in the minority but seems to me that we want close racing and for that we need stable regs. They should stick with what they have got right now. Just keep evolving it. The cars don't sound bad at all. It was actually nice to be able to converse to folks when attending the race in Montreal. They should work on getting the cars better at passing other cars. That's the only thing that's missing in F1. Now we have super close qualis which are hard to predict, we have close racing and drama and all that. Performance of the cars are converging which means drivers are having to dig deeper. Renault and Honda once caught up (inevitable) then it will be an amazing spectacle. Just needs a bit of time and stable regs.

gvera
0
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:48 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by gvera » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:01 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:04 pm
I am probably in the minority but seems to me that we want close racing and for that we need stable regs. They should stick with what they have got right now. Just keep evolving it. The cars don't sound bad at all. It was actually nice to be able to converse to folks when attending the race in Montreal. They should work on getting the cars better at passing other cars. That's the only thing that's missing in F1. Now we have super close qualis which are hard to predict, we have close racing and drama and all that. Performance of the cars are converging which means drivers are having to dig deeper. Renault and Honda once caught up (inevitable) then it will be an amazing spectacle. Just needs a bit of time and stable regs.
Agree 100%

Zynerji
34
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2021 Engine thread

Post by Zynerji » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:51 pm

roon wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:40 am
wuzak wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:53 am
roon wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:15 pm
Maybe Porsche/VW/Audi are waiting for front axle kers to be permitted. The 919 & R18 lines only had front axle, never rear axle, kers. They can build an MGUH. They've been racing one for four years. To the extent that it would have been considered to motor, I wonder if they ever used it to control backpressure to help spool the primary unassisted turbo.
WEC/Le Mans rules only allowed 2 methods of recovering energy. For Porsche it was front wheel MGUK and MGUH on secondary turbine on engine. Audi and Toyota used 4 wheel KERS?
Audi opted for front-axle KERS and the superior energy density of diesel fuel for the R18 line. Supposedly they tested an MGUH at the beginning of the regulations change, but they did not use it in competition. Toyota were the only LMP1 competitor to use four-wheel KERS.

The R18 competed in the 2MJ, 4MJ, and 6MJ classes in LMP1 over the years, starting with flywheel energy storage before settling upon Li-ion batteries. In the final iteration of the R18, it was shown that a front axle KERS system could be installed in a high-nose narrow-chassis similar to open wheel racing cars:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... pAud07.jpg
That's what I'm talkin' about!

Unlimited AWDKERS... my favorite!