Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
saviour stivala
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by saviour stivala » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:36 pm

Zava wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:48 pm
roon wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:39 pm
GoranF1 wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:31 pm
My freah impresions from the track:

Ferrari has a very very very differet sound to all others including custemers Ferrari's.
The sound change takes place when Kimi and Vettel exit last corner and push throttle pedal to the end.
The rise in decibels is amazing, it feeels like they were driving V8 engines, everybody on the grand stands were amazed by it....it feels so much more power than others.
I think due to power advantage they will have speed edge tomorrow in the dry.

In terms of drivers Kimi has so much more confidence in the wet than Vettel...throws the car around like rally...Vettel in the wet takes normal corner lines no risk and is visibly slower.
Thanks for that. Any video, by chance? Seems to confirm wastegate(s)-open acceleration mode.
I made a video at T11:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLdtPx_kvAU
Waste gates open with engine at maximum fuel flow, in electric supercharging mode, with both MGU-K and MGU-H sharing battery power. some calls it "free load mode" some calls it "qualifying mode" and still some called it "party mode".

LM10
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by LM10 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:56 pm

saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:36 pm
Zava wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:48 pm
roon wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:39 pm


Thanks for that. Any video, by chance? Seems to confirm wastegate(s)-open acceleration mode.
I made a video at T11:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLdtPx_kvAU
Waste gates open with engine at maximum fuel flow, in electric supercharging mode, with both MGU-K and MGU-H sharing battery power. some calls it "free load mode" some calls it "qualifying mode" and still some called it "party mode".
You could hear that sound pretty well in pre-season testing too and there they surely weren’t in qualifying mode.

MtthsMlw
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Location: Germany

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by MtthsMlw » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:58 am

AMuS:
And you hear that the SF71H has new suspension elements since the German GP. On the front axle or on the rear axle? To be honest, we don't know for sure either. But we can interpret. In Germany as well as in Hungary the mechanics blocked the view on the rear area on the starting grid. Ferrari wants to hide something there.

Jokeri
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Jokeri » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:03 am

So its the other end then :)

saviour stivala
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by saviour stivala » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:10 pm

LM10 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:56 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:36 pm
Zava wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:48 pm

I made a video at T11:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLdtPx_kvAU
Waste gates open with engine at maximum fuel flow, in electric supercharging mode, with both MGU-K and MGU-H sharing battery power. some calls it "free load mode" some calls it "qualifying mode" and still some called it "party mode".
You could hear that sound pretty well in pre-season testing too and there they surely weren’t in qualifying mode.
The original technical term was “free load mode” with engine at full fueling the compressor is in electric supercharging mode, with waste gates open and exhaust gases bypassing the turbine, with both K and H sharing battery power. This maximum power possible mode was part of the hybrid design. It was mostly used in qualifying by those whose reliability permitted, where fuel consumption and a discharged battery after one lap did not matter. And also very strictly limited and with pit wall permission during the race. The noticeable change in engine sound is due to the fact that when free load mode is used exhaust gases change exiting from turbine scroll tailpipe to waste gates tailpipes. FERRARI seems to have found the necessary requisites namely, reliability, fuel consumption and harvesting capabilities to be able to use this mode at certain strategic points during the lap, for lap after lap. All this is reinforced by the fact that while both Mercedes and FERRARI are using this mode during qualifying the differences are minimal, but during the race when Mercedes do hardly use this mode the differences are bigger.

mclaren111
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by mclaren111 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:54 am

F1:

Image


Look at the detail on this Floor !! :o :o

siskue2005
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by siskue2005 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm

saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:10 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:56 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:36 pm


Waste gates open with engine at maximum fuel flow, in electric supercharging mode, with both MGU-K and MGU-H sharing battery power. some calls it "free load mode" some calls it "qualifying mode" and still some called it "party mode".
You could hear that sound pretty well in pre-season testing too and there they surely weren’t in qualifying mode.
The original technical term was “free load mode” with engine at full fueling the compressor is in electric supercharging mode, with waste gates open and exhaust gases bypassing the turbine, with both K and H sharing battery power. This maximum power possible mode was part of the hybrid design. It was mostly used in qualifying by those whose reliability permitted, where fuel consumption and a discharged battery after one lap did not matter. And also very strictly limited and with pit wall permission during the race. The noticeable change in engine sound is due to the fact that when free load mode is used exhaust gases change exiting from turbine scroll tailpipe to waste gates tailpipes. FERRARI seems to have found the necessary requisites namely, reliability, fuel consumption and harvesting capabilities to be able to use this mode at certain strategic points during the lap, for lap after lap. All this is reinforced by the fact that while both Mercedes and FERRARI are using this mode during qualifying the differences are minimal, but during the race when Mercedes do hardly use this mode the differences are bigger.
really lap after lap? how is that even possible? could u care to explain?
Moreover race pace for Merc and Ferrari seems to be even ( i am saying this from the laptimes we have seen during the race)

enumae
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by enumae » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:24 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm
Moreover race pace for Merc and Ferrari seems to be even ( i am saying this from the laptimes we have seen during the race)
How much of this is managing the race (keeping a gap), tires, fuel? <Mod edit: this part was not about the car, hence off topic>

siskue2005
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by siskue2005 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:52 pm

enumae wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:24 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm
Moreover race pace for Merc and Ferrari seems to be even ( i am saying this from the laptimes we have seen during the race)
How much of this is managing the race (keeping a gap), tires, fuel? <Mod edit: this part was not about the car, hence off topic>
then how can we say one car is faster than other? the only objective way is to look at the laptimes, we cannot look at hypothetical situation and claim it is fact.

marvin78
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by marvin78 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:53 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:52 pm
enumae wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:24 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm
Moreover race pace for Merc and Ferrari seems to be even ( i am saying this from the laptimes we have seen during the race)
How much of this is managing the race (keeping a gap), tires, fuel? <Mod edit: this part was not about the car, hence off topic>
then how can we say one car is faster than other? the only objective way is to look at the laptimes, we cannot look at hypothetical situation and claim it is fact.
You are right. And that's the reason, most of this discussions are pointless.

Juzh
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Juzh » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:00 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:10 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:56 pm


You could hear that sound pretty well in pre-season testing too and there they surely weren’t in qualifying mode.
The original technical term was “free load mode” with engine at full fueling the compressor is in electric supercharging mode, with waste gates open and exhaust gases bypassing the turbine, with both K and H sharing battery power. This maximum power possible mode was part of the hybrid design. It was mostly used in qualifying by those whose reliability permitted, where fuel consumption and a discharged battery after one lap did not matter. And also very strictly limited and with pit wall permission during the race. The noticeable change in engine sound is due to the fact that when free load mode is used exhaust gases change exiting from turbine scroll tailpipe to waste gates tailpipes. FERRARI seems to have found the necessary requisites namely, reliability, fuel consumption and harvesting capabilities to be able to use this mode at certain strategic points during the lap, for lap after lap. All this is reinforced by the fact that while both Mercedes and FERRARI are using this mode during qualifying the differences are minimal, but during the race when Mercedes do hardly use this mode the differences are bigger.
really lap after lap? how is that even possible? could u care to explain?
Moreover race pace for Merc and Ferrari seems to be even ( i am saying this from the laptimes we have seen during the race)
It really is, in short bursts. It seems ferrari's energy recovery has gotten to a level so good this is actually possible.

That said, most of the cars are doing this on some parts of the lap during the race, it's just that ferrari's for whatever reason seems the loudest and thus most noticeable.

Ever since FOM started to put microphones in the exhaust (or near it, doesn't matter) tone shift when free load mode is activated is like night and day. Check below:

free load active, listen carefully


free load inactive some laps later - no shift in tone


Here's a nice example of how verstappen uses all power (free load included) on his run to copse in order to stay ahead of raikkonen. Keep an eye on his left hand holding down the overtake paddle behind the steering wheel

siskue2005
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by siskue2005 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:12 pm

Juzh wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:00 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:10 pm

The original technical term was “free load mode” with engine at full fueling the compressor is in electric supercharging mode, with waste gates open and exhaust gases bypassing the turbine, with both K and H sharing battery power. This maximum power possible mode was part of the hybrid design. It was mostly used in qualifying by those whose reliability permitted, where fuel consumption and a discharged battery after one lap did not matter. And also very strictly limited and with pit wall permission during the race. The noticeable change in engine sound is due to the fact that when free load mode is used exhaust gases change exiting from turbine scroll tailpipe to waste gates tailpipes. FERRARI seems to have found the necessary requisites namely, reliability, fuel consumption and harvesting capabilities to be able to use this mode at certain strategic points during the lap, for lap after lap. All this is reinforced by the fact that while both Mercedes and FERRARI are using this mode during qualifying the differences are minimal, but during the race when Mercedes do hardly use this mode the differences are bigger.
really lap after lap? how is that even possible? could u care to explain?
Moreover race pace for Merc and Ferrari seems to be even ( i am saying this from the laptimes we have seen during the race)
It really is, in short bursts. It seems ferrari's energy recovery has gotten to a level so good this is actually possible.

That said, most of the cars are doing this on some parts of the lap during the race, it's just that ferrari's for whatever reason seems the loudest and thus most noticeable.

Ever since FOM started to put microphones in the exhaust (or near it, doesn't matter) tone shift when free load mode is activated is like night and day. Check below:

free load active, listen carefully
https://streamable.com/3xbyk

free load inactive some laps later - no shift in tone
https://streamable.com/3lf4q

Here's a nice example of how verstappen uses all power (free load included) on his run to copse in order to stay ahead of raikkonen. Keep an eye on his left hand holding down the overtake paddle behind the steering wheel
https://streamable.com/4dgl7
Good post.... but do u also have video of Ferrari using it?

dren
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by dren » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:24 pm

This isn't a qualifying only mode. Honda was using it lap after lap in 2016. They used it on sections of the track that made the most sense. I would guess all teams do it when possible and where the largest benefit is on track.
Honda!

Juzh
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by Juzh » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:58 am

siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:12 pm
Juzh wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:00 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm


really lap after lap? how is that even possible? could u care to explain?
Moreover race pace for Merc and Ferrari seems to be even ( i am saying this from the laptimes we have seen during the race)
It really is, in short bursts. It seems ferrari's energy recovery has gotten to a level so good this is actually possible.

That said, most of the cars are doing this on some parts of the lap during the race, it's just that ferrari's for whatever reason seems the loudest and thus most noticeable.

Ever since FOM started to put microphones in the exhaust (or near it, doesn't matter) tone shift when free load mode is activated is like night and day. Check below:

free load active, listen carefully
https://streamable.com/3xbyk

free load inactive some laps later - no shift in tone
https://streamable.com/3lf4q

Here's a nice example of how verstappen uses all power (free load included) on his run to copse in order to stay ahead of raikkonen. Keep an eye on his left hand holding down the overtake paddle behind the steering wheel
https://streamable.com/4dgl7
Good post.... but do u also have video of Ferrari using it?
Ferrari powered teams don't have exhaust mics it seems, all you can hear is engine and ers winding noises.

roon
309
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF71H

Post by roon » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:41 pm

Juzh wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:58 am
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:12 pm
Juzh wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:00 pm

It really is, in short bursts. It seems ferrari's energy recovery has gotten to a level so good this is actually possible.

That said, most of the cars are doing this on some parts of the lap during the race, it's just that ferrari's for whatever reason seems the loudest and thus most noticeable.

Ever since FOM started to put microphones in the exhaust (or near it, doesn't matter) tone shift when free load mode is activated is like night and day. Check below:

free load active, listen carefully
https://streamable.com/3xbyk

free load inactive some laps later - no shift in tone
https://streamable.com/3lf4q

Here's a nice example of how verstappen uses all power (free load included) on his run to copse in order to stay ahead of raikkonen. Keep an eye on his left hand holding down the overtake paddle behind the steering wheel
https://streamable.com/4dgl7
Good post.... but do u also have video of Ferrari using it?
Ferrari powered teams don't have exhaust mics it seems, all you can hear is engine and ers winding noises.
I'm not aware of a standard location for the microphones. My guess is that Ferrari has theirs mounted near the gearbox, other teams having theirs mounted near the radiators. Engine exhaust, turbocharger, and gearbox noise dominate the sounds we hear. Why would the electric motors, their controllers, and/or the ES be audible over these high-dB sources?