Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Just_a_fan
350
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:37 pm

I don't understand why they're showing these images of what are entirely exercises in styling over function. Unless the FIA is going to turn F1 in to a single make series, the "concepts" are just evidence of old men trying to appeal to young people. "Oh look, swoopy stuff, lovely, yes?". Er, no, cartoon styling is not what F1 needs.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

astracrazy
50
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by astracrazy » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:39 pm

Concept images are all well and good. But the cars will only look how they intend if they a) have a single car formula designed to there spec or b) over restrictive regulations. Apart from that it will just be regulation boxes and the teams do as they like in those areas.

Id much more prefer them not worry too much about the look, which all this exercise seems to be about, and more worry about the aero elements which will actually work for better racing i.e floor design.

Id take basic looking car but they actually race well because all the r and d was put into the aero. They seem to think people worry more about how the cars look, when in reality people adapt (take the halo, im used to it now but hated it at first)

AMG.Tzan
10
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by AMG.Tzan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:00 pm

Can't understand how indycar made such a great job both in retro styling and better racing in just a few months and Formula 1 can't! They don't want to embrace full on ground effect with minimal wings! That's the way to go...at least Indycar did it! Simpler smaller wings...bigger diffuser!

jjn9128
110
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by jjn9128 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:02 pm

astracrazy wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:39 pm
Concept images are all well and good. But the cars will only look how they intend if they a) have a single car formula designed to there spec or b) over restrictive regulations. Apart from that it will just be regulation boxes and the teams do as they like in those areas.

Id much more prefer them not worry too much about the look, which all this exercise seems to be about, and more worry about the aero elements which will actually work for better racing i.e floor design.

Id take basic looking car but they actually race well because all the r and d was put into the aero. They seem to think people worry more about how the cars look, when in reality people adapt (take the halo, im used to it now but hated it at first)
Concept 1 is the only version which looks like it might be enforceable as an aero package. I'm not sure the halo in these concepts is a better safety device than the one we have - especially for head-on debris.
Jin.
#aerogandalf

jjn9128
110
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by jjn9128 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm

AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:00 pm
Can't understand how indycar made such a great job both in retro styling and better racing in just a few months and Formula 1 can't! They don't want to embrace full on ground effect with minimal wings! That's the way to go...at least Indycar did it! Simpler smaller wings...bigger diffuser!
Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
Jin.
#aerogandalf

djos
103
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by djos » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:11 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:00 pm
Can't understand how indycar made such a great job both in retro styling and better racing in just a few months and Formula 1 can't! They don't want to embrace full on ground effect with minimal wings! That's the way to go...at least Indycar did it! Simpler smaller wings...bigger diffuser!
Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
The racing in the late 90's Champ Car series would strongly suggest otherwise.

I get the impression you are likely in your 20's? If so you missed out on some of the best single seat racing seasons in the history of motor racing imo.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

toraabe
11
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:42 am

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by toraabe » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:15 pm


KeiKo403
10
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by KeiKo403 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:16 pm

not to mention some of the concept art work is so old that is still bears the old F1 logo......

wesley123
203
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by wesley123 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:42 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:00 pm
Can't understand how indycar made such a great job both in retro styling and better racing in just a few months and Formula 1 can't! They don't want to embrace full on ground effect with minimal wings! That's the way to go...at least Indycar did it! Simpler smaller wings...bigger diffuser!
Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
I agree. Many spec racing series use large rear wings, the close example is F2
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Just_a_fan
350
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:52 pm

djos wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:11 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:00 pm
Can't understand how indycar made such a great job both in retro styling and better racing in just a few months and Formula 1 can't! They don't want to embrace full on ground effect with minimal wings! That's the way to go...at least Indycar did it! Simpler smaller wings...bigger diffuser!
Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
The racing in the late 90's Champ Car series would strongly suggest otherwise.

I get the impression you are likely in your 20's? If so you missed out on some of the best single seat racing seasons in the history of motor racing imo.
This looks like a big rear wing to me...


Image

Oh, and asking his age is irrelevant - look at the user's technical input in to the forum, especially the link to his PhD thesis where he assessed this very subject.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

A15013950
2
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:34 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by A15013950 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:17 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:00 pm
Can't understand how indycar made such a great job both in retro styling and better racing in just a few months and Formula 1 can't! They don't want to embrace full on ground effect with minimal wings! That's the way to go...at least Indycar did it! Simpler smaller wings...bigger diffuser!
Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
https://www.sae.org/publications/techni ... 5-01-1539/

A good paper to read if anyone is interested in reading more about the underbody aero v rear wing and the effect it has on a following car.

jjn9128
110
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by jjn9128 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:36 pm

A15013950 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:17 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:00 pm
Can't understand how indycar made such a great job both in retro styling and better racing in just a few months and Formula 1 can't! They don't want to embrace full on ground effect with minimal wings! That's the way to go...at least Indycar did it! Simpler smaller wings...bigger diffuser!
Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
https://www.sae.org/publications/techni ... 5-01-1539/

A good paper to read if anyone is interested in reading more about the underbody aero v rear wing and the effect it has on a following car.
Cheers that's on of mine :D
Jin.
#aerogandalf

KeiKo403
10
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by KeiKo403 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:03 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:36 pm
A15013950 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:17 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm


Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
https://www.sae.org/publications/techni ... 5-01-1539/

A good paper to read if anyone is interested in reading more about the underbody aero v rear wing and the effect it has on a following car.
Cheers that's on of mine :D
@jjn9128 - did you use a rough representation of an F1 car or was you able to source actual F1 car data for your model?

Also - seeing a sample of what you wrote but understanding none of it leads me wanting to ask some really simple crazy questions....if you don't mind? :)

Just interested to know the difference in effect of the wake off the back of a current Williams vs a Red Bull/Mercedes? Performance on track looks huge difference, especially in qualifying but would there be a difference in the 'wake profile', or whatever it's official technical name is?

Going forward into 2021 the areo regs could be written to allow closer racing (reduce wake/turbulent air), could team still add bodywork with little effect on their performance but drastically reduce the chance the follow closely for the car behind?

I've always wondered if regs could be written to say the air behind the car must become 'neutral' after 8 (or x)meters?

AMG.Tzan
10
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by AMG.Tzan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:09 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:52 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:11 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm


Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
The racing in the late 90's Champ Car series would strongly suggest otherwise.

I get the impression you are likely in your 20's? If so you missed out on some of the best single seat racing seasons in the history of motor racing imo.
This looks like a big rear wing to me...


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... n_Hall.jpg

Oh, and asking his age is irrelevant - look at the user's technical input in to the forum, especially the link to his PhD thesis where he assessed this very subject.
Yeah these wings are big but look how simple they are...i am talking more of the 1978-1982 Formula 1 ground effect era where teams didn't even run front wings sometimes! I am refering to Venturi tunnels with skirts and not just big diffusers.

And well yeah i am in my 20s but guess what...i am wathcing 90-00s racing both from Indycar/CART and Formula 1 every single day instead of watching movies or series :oops: Thankfully the internet has saved us from losing such great racing!! =D>

A15013950
2
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:34 pm

Re: Liberty Media New F1 from 2021

Post by A15013950 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:13 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:36 pm
A15013950 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:17 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:03 pm


Minimal wings??? Have you actually seen the wings on an Indycar???? I've said it before (based on evidence) a big rear wing is better for a following car than underbody aero.
https://www.sae.org/publications/techni ... 5-01-1539/

A good paper to read if anyone is interested in reading more about the underbody aero v rear wing and the effect it has on a following car.
Cheers that's on of mine :D
Ok well that’s awkward haha. I think that all of the F1 media should read that before blindly saying “go back to ground effect for better racing” and also maybe find out what ground effect actually means.